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Post by Sakhicharan Das on Jun 7, 2009 10:13:09 GMT -6
Oh that Jagadbandhu. He is of course famous. If I am not mistaken, one of the issues IGM have with this line is that Jagadbandhu Prabhu does not have a formal connection with any of the lines back to Mahaprabhu - a self-proclaimed incarnation. This no-line objection - its kind of ironic, in a roundabout way... Jai Nitai! This is true that Bandhusundar Prabhu doesn't give any formal line to Mahaprabhu, but his followers are well aware of this and he doesn't give diksha anyway. One thing I am not sure of is if his followers take any formal diksha from somewhere else. It may be that they do...I am trying to find out.
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Post by Stray thinker on Jun 7, 2009 12:47:09 GMT -6
mojo,
man, for some reason even if the entire state of utah turns mormon, every single man, woman and child there mormon, it don't worry me. numbers are not that important, it has some power, but real power is in substance. and mormons, well that lifestyle is just spiritual corn. like iskcon or any other cult for that matter, there is a lot of distraction there, so they don't have the power of substance. so i am not afraid of such and such religous group becoming so powerful that i have to worry about my rituals. i am afraid of very little these days. without sounding too selfrighteous, i am afraid of one thing these days and that is to loose the company of devotees. seriously, even the whole of iskcon circus would do better for me than nothing, no vaishnavas. the world is sad withoutd krishna bhaktas. without bhakti, life is meaningless, know what i mean? this is why i also don't care anymore about those instructions of not hearing from 'the others'. the others turn out to be really cool. just look at this jagadbandhu prabhu for example. i don't feel like dismissing his experience because of a link issue. his life story in itself is a screaming proof that mahaprabhu does not give a dam about a link. unless of course its the right kind of link. i may not feel inspired to get involved with certain styles such as mormons or jehova witnesses, but i am not afraid of checking out other people's faith anymore. everyone has a link. but personally i need the devotees, mahaprabhu, the gosvamis, radhakunda, radha-krishna, so what can i do, i get that from the harekrishnas, and so thats where i stay. but harekrishnas are a mess right now. a real mess.
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Post by Vaishnava Seminars on Jun 7, 2009 13:10:57 GMT -6
Oh that Jagadbandhu. He is of course famous. If I am not mistaken, one of the issues IGM have with this line is that Jagadbandhu Prabhu does not have a formal connection with any of the lines back to Mahaprabhu - a self-proclaimed incarnation. This no-line objection - its kind of ironic, in a roundabout way... Jai Nitai! This is true that Bandhusundar Prabhu doesn't give any formal line to Mahaprabhu, but his followers are well aware of this and he doesn't give diksha anyway. One thing I am not sure of is if his followers take any formal diksha from somewhere else. It may be that they do...I am trying to find out. These types of scenarios are not uncommon throughout Bangladesh, Assam, Orissa and West Bengal. Navadwip markets are flooded with photos of various Bengali personalities whom their followers and locals say is the avatar of Mahaprabhu or his various parikaras. The above mentioned states are comprised mostly of poor villages and the inhabitants are minimally literate and not very well read. They tend to put their faith in persons they deem to be extraordinary and extend that faith to claiming the person as some sort of avatar or combined force of this or that. Practically every village as their "maha purush", "avatar" or "thakur". Like Anukool Thakur in my Assamese friend's village. I think he's considered "Mahaprabhu". No harm. If it works for them, so be it. We see that even post-modern, educated people have this tendency as well, and when they do it, they do it with force, gusto, and far-reaching technology and often impose their idolization unto others and demonize those who don't bow to the same symbol of heroism that they do. By comparison, India's village avatars seem more benign. In either case, I think its human nature to want to heroize and idolize other human beings. Though the yogic path is to become your own hero........ I think by projecting our own potential on someone else, somehow that makes us feel better. I don't know, haven't quite figured people out yet! Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.Sri Buddha (supposedly, regardless, its a good one however embellised it may be) "I desire to see the 2 youthful gems of Braj, the tips of whose stunning nails are washed by waves of sweetness of millions of matchless young girls and Cupids, and who are always deligted by their endless feelings of mutual attraction. I desire to see the 2 youthful gems of Braj, whose moon faces, endowed with lotus eyes that are dizzy with erotic rasa that cast slightly roving side-long glances, have slighty lowered their gazes out of shyness, and whose desire for hearing each others sweet nothings constantly increase"Sri Raghunath Das Goswami
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Post by Vaishnava Seminars on Jun 7, 2009 13:46:44 GMT -6
Actually my above was meant to be related to what Sakhi wrote here;
I forgot to include the qoute and it all doesn't make sense without it.
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Post by Samastha on Jun 7, 2009 14:15:50 GMT -6
"The yogic path is to become your own hero", wow thats an imagined definition there.
The yogic path is about connecting with someone outside oneself for a reason. The hero is always the other.
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Post by VS on Jun 7, 2009 14:29:04 GMT -6
In yoga guru gives sadhana which is inwardly focused. Performance of sadhana and lobh to attain prem seva attracts grace of guru and goddess. Bhakti comes from someone else but that someone else exists inside us, in our bhajan-rajya. That is manasa-dharma or the dharma of the mind. Hence the guru given practice of lila smarana .... and the mind being a primary tool for sadhana in raganuga bhajan. I just knew someone was going to extrapolate and misinterpret what I wrote. I was going to mention that in my post but thought, "naw, give the benefit of the doubt". But ... intuition rarely fails. That's another thing from within. Its all good. I'm procrastinating anyway.... back to work!
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Post by Sanatan on Jun 7, 2009 14:44:38 GMT -6
Bhakti comes from someone else but that someone else exists... inside us? Wow entertainment abound indeed. Someone inside one is still one. Else it takes two. Sadhana and practices is just ritualization and celebration of the distinctiveness.
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Post by VS on Jun 7, 2009 14:47:49 GMT -6
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Post by VS on Jun 7, 2009 15:25:18 GMT -6
More from: www.mahanam.org/index.htmlHISTORY OF MAHANAM SAMPRADAYA New Incarnation Lord Jagatbandhu Hari is believed by the Mahanam Sampradaya to be the New Incarnation of the Loving Lord Sri Hari and the Greatest World – Teacher whose advent is being proclaimed in chorus by various sects of Hindus, Mohammedans, Buddhists and Christians alike. The Lord appeared in the year 1871 AD in the month of May (1278 B.S 17th Baisakh) in Bengal, India, and declared that He had come to deliver the creation from all troubles and sins. The Lord has said: “With my advent all the saints and great men have come down to the world. I am the centre of all”. He further says: “I shall establish the order of true religion in four continents alike at the same time”. “All creatures are mine and I also, do belong to all. So go ye and make all in the world your own.” “Show kindness and compassion and do well to all creatures. Make a free gift of religion to all. Initiation in the hallowed name of Hari is the sure means of attaining salvation (i.e; deliverance from all agonies and sufferings). This is the secret of salvation. This is the secret of eternal good done to others”. There's a lot of sweet stuff on that site. I especially appreciate the "live and love" motto. I'm just pointing out that the above sort of descriptions of "guru as god" sort is not at all uncommon in that part of the globe, especially in villages --- there are so many. Its not good. Its not bad. It just is.If it works for them, so be it. That was my only point. At the same time I can apprecaite Sri Bandhusundar ji as a vaishnava and I certainly appreciate the website, minus that qoute about women, of course. But thats to be expected, given the era and cultural background. Over on this side of the globe, we tend not to god-ize our gurus and mentors, but many people do tend to push them on others. And then there are others still, who, seeing a dynamic personality whom they deem to be doing bhajan, rather than do their own bhajan and attain to their own glorious potential, would rather follow that person around, projecting their own desires for internal development upon them. Then later when that person disppoints them in some way, they will criticise them and then find someone else to globe trot for. These are the "spiritual groupies" (or one other less flattering term I heard, "bhakti vampires") we probably all came across (or were) at one point in our lives. But there's no getting around it folks, at some point in time we will have to do our own personal guru-given sadhan-bhajan and realize our own self. OK, now lets see how anyone can misinterpret the above.
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Post by Sanatan on Jun 7, 2009 15:30:07 GMT -6
VS, what the h** are you talking about? I am saying the meaning of union, yoga, is one realizes guru, connection, is more important than oneself, more important than Bhagavan even. Thats the 'other' I am referring to. "a body without initiation is as good as a dead body". Initiation is not just a ritual. It means via another soul, the guru, one belongs. But always via the other, always with the mercy of guru.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2009 18:04:50 GMT -6
Stray thinker, whoever you are, seems like you still got some serious cult issues based on your post. You are terrified of not being in some sort of cult, it would seem. Try just viewing everybody around you as human like yourself for a change, with all the human frailties and ideals. What you are really afraid of is loneliness, which is part of the human condition. You have just convinced yourself that it is saddhusang that you need, but most saddhus are solitary people doing their bhajan and not missionaries going around preaching about how much peer pressure is essential to being on the path of bhakti.
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Post by vs on Jun 7, 2009 18:58:51 GMT -6
"all over India there are self-proclaimed avatars -- from the biggies like Satya Sai Baba and Mata Amritanandamayi or Narayani Amma, to small time gals and guys who are accoutants or housewives but awaken one fine day and realize they are an incarnation of Vishnu or Shiva or Devi and need to tell the world of their saving grace; cash or credit accepted."Speaking of which we have India's last remaining ordinary human! There has been such a spate of gurus, avatars, godmen, etc. in India in the past few years. My sister-in-law did some research, followed by some rough, back-of-the-napkin calculations and came out with a startling conclusion. Everyone in India was a holy something or other. Yet here I was, the one and only avatar of a human being in the entire freakin’ country.
“Whoa! We’ve found a niche for you!”
We carefully checked out all records and found that for at least seven generations, there have been no divine incarnations and such in my family. My S-I-L told me, “Bro, you are pure, a blue-blooded human. No divine contamination and shit.” Everyone looked at me with reverence.
I inched back, afraid that they would prostrate at my human feet.
But wait, I said pessimistically, “Are you sure there have been no miracles at all in my life. I mean like I haven’t had a cold in the last 5 years, and I’ve never ever farted.”.
“Shh!” my S-I-L shrieked, “We’ll keep that between us”.
There were no other divine interventions we could think of, and if anyone hears of this one, we’ll show him proof that I have piles and that I had an anal fissure 3 years back. If they don’t believe me I can show him a pile!
So now the question in the family is – how do we go about this thing. How do we capitalize on my uniqueness, and make this a billion dollar industry. How do we get the teeming population of India – the Gods and avatars and siddhas – to line up outside my apartment for my darshan, limos full of donations and shit.
Until I get answers from you folk, I have started growing a beard.From: sunyata.blogsome.com/ ;D
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Post by jagadbandhu on Jun 7, 2009 21:06:42 GMT -6
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Post by Sakhicharan Das on Jun 7, 2009 21:27:16 GMT -6
Jagadbandhu Ji, thanks for trying to help clarify these points. I am well aware of these facts though. You provided a link to my own blog to show me!
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Post by jagadbandhu on Jun 7, 2009 21:36:35 GMT -6
You wrote: "...One thing I am not sure of is if his followers take any formal diksha from somewhere else. It may be that they do...I am trying to find out."But you already know, you posted it on your blog!
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