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Post by Sakhicharan Das on Jun 7, 2009 22:25:09 GMT -6
You wrote: "...One thing I am not sure of is if his followers take any formal diksha from somewhere else. It may be that they do...I am trying to find out."But you already know, you posted it on your blog! In the post about Sripad Mahendraji it is not stated whether or not diksha was received by Mahanambrata Brahmachari. He accepted Mahendraji as his guru and one would have thought that Mahendraji would have taken diksha somewhere along the line before he was called by Bandhusundar in a dream, but who knows?
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Post by vs on Jun 7, 2009 23:32:38 GMT -6
Here's Bandhusundar's facebook page, so maybe your questions could be answered there. www.facebook.com/pages/Pravu-Jagatbandhu-Sundar/28857847833#/pages/Pravu-Jagatbandhu-Sundar/28857847833?v=wall&viewas=1795274616And I guess ONG KLING KRISHINYA CHATYANYA JAGATBHANDU SUNDRAYA NAMAYA is the mantra his followers chant. Here is something tragic that I just read: Eight Bramacharee were butchered and by Pakistan Army in FaridpurOn 21April 1971 (07 Baikh 1377 BS, Wednesday ) eight bramahcharees of Sree Angan of the Lord Jagat bandhu Sunder were butchered and tomb of the temple was demolished. All those Vaishnava Brahmacharees namely Sahid Kirtan Bandhu, Shahid Nidanbandhu,Shahid Kshitibandhu, Shahid Bandhudas , Shahid Chirabandhu, Shahid Gour Bandhu, Shahid Andha Kanai and Shahid Ravibandhu were killed by the Pakistani Occupation forces while Brahmacharees chanting kirtan, prayer, of lord Jagatbandhu Sundar,an incarnation of Vishnu,a vaishnava cult in Hinduism. This Sree Angan as commonly known to all section of people is a holy shrine and profoundly respected to all irrespective to caste, creed and religions.
Believe it or not, it was happened, a Pakistani Army Captain Jamshed who commanded the massacre in Faridpur from April to July’71 had to beg divine mercy and ultimately commit suicide before the altar of Lord Jagatbandhu’s main temple of the Sree Angan just a few days before Pakistan Forces surrendered to Joint Command of Indian Army in Dec.1971.Capt Jamshed was burried in the Sree Angan (near pond of the Shiva Temple) by the Razzakar and Bihari Muslims, Probodh Kumar Sarkar, a Freedom Fighter of Faridpur told me recently. It may be mentioned here Captain Jamshed who had torched the main temple, killed the Brahmacharees and desecrate the holy place became lunatic before his unnatural death. But why he committed suicide before the altar of the main temple of Pravu Shri Shri Jagatbandhu Sundar? Was it a dictum of destiny or maledictions of divine power? From: www.asiantribune.com/index.php?q=node/5902
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Post by Sakhicharan Das on Jun 7, 2009 23:55:45 GMT -6
Jai Nitai! Well the facebook page is certainly not anything official and everything there is coming from the Mahanam.org website. I never seen that chant before either. I don't know where they got that from. What you will see on the walls of all of their ashrams and what they chant for sure is: haripuruSa jagadbandhu mahAuddhAraNa cArihasta candraputra hA kITa-putan (prabhu prabhu prabhu he) ( anantAnantamoy)
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Post by vs on Jun 8, 2009 0:10:33 GMT -6
Thats a song or chant, not a mantra per se. Why not write that guy on facebook who put ONG KLING KRISHNIYA CHATYANYA JAGATBHANDU SUNDRAYA NAMAYA there if that was a mantra he received upon taking diksha? I mean come on, Sakhi. Don't get hung up on whether or not he's keeping stock of grain.
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Post by Sakhicharan Das on Jun 8, 2009 0:50:50 GMT -6
bhaja jagadbandhu kaha jagadbandhu laha jagadbandhur nAm re
yei jana jagadbandhu bhaje sei haya AmAra prANa re
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Post by Guest200 on Jun 8, 2009 2:41:31 GMT -6
More sexist crap from so called enlighted men! I suppose I should pluck out my eyes so I don't see a woman and then and only then will Harinama be merciful to me.
I wonder if this "incarnation" held the view "a woman should be beaten like a Mridanga".
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Post by Stray Thinker on Jun 8, 2009 5:35:35 GMT -6
mojo,
I don't like solitary bhajan, I don't believe its even what mahaprabhu intended. Sankirtan means congregation. I believe there is no other way. In this day and age people seek one another for meaning, for ritualzing anyways, if its not for one thing its for another. But people seek communication, communion.
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Post by Sakhicharan Das on Jun 8, 2009 6:01:55 GMT -6
More sexist crap from so called enlighted men! I suppose I should pluck out my eyes so I don't see a woman and then and only then will Harinama be merciful to me. I wonder if this "incarnation" held the view "a woman should be beaten like a Mridanga". I have read a lot of the teachings of Jagadbandhu Sundar and never have I seen a word of harsh, sexist language. In fact it has been quite the opposite. He does recommend brahmcharya, but please see the definition of brahmacharya as given by Mahanambrata Brahmachari: Hari Purush Jagadbandhu used to say-- "Be Brahmachari and teach others to be Brahmachari."Now what is that brahmacharya--or act of being a brahmachari? "Brahma" means the biggest, widest, greatest, all-pervading, all-embracing, "Charya," from the Sanskrit root "Char", means to dwell in. Therefore the word means to dwell in the All-Embracing One.
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Post by Sakhicharan Das on Jun 8, 2009 6:11:12 GMT -6
mojo, I don't like solitary bhajan, I don't believe its even what mahaprabhu intended. Sankirtan means congregation. I believe there is no other way. In this day and age people seek one another for meaning, for ritualzing anyways, if its not for one thing its for another. But people seek communication, communion. I rather agree with Stray Thinker here about it not really being Mahaprabhu's intention for us to perform nirjan bhajan. There is a lila in Carita Sudha where Radharaman Charan Das Dev asks a sisya to read Bhakti Ratnakar. When the sisya finished reading the grantha Radharaman Dev asked him what he learned from it. He said that he learned that Mahaprabhu had taught jautika bhajan and he could see that now people were changing the trend and heading off for solitary bhajan. Radharaman Charan Dev had hoped to see the trend reversed to people again doing group (jautika) sankirtan. Both paths are of course valid, but Mahaprabhu stressed yautika bhajan, especially for the general devotees.
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Post by Stray Thinker on Jun 8, 2009 8:24:31 GMT -6
"There is no other way" does not mean that peopole have no choice but obey a tyranic demand from God almighty. It means that mahaprabhu, as a matter of sheer mercy, has reversed the unfortuante characteristics of this age and made them into advantages. Its human nature to inquire into the meaning of being. There is indeed a need to go inwards for such process. However, its also human nature (or the nature of this world) that things degrade from spiritual to matter if left unattended. So going inwards is a sophisticated process which becomes more and more difficult as the environment decays. As we experience it presently, human nature tends mainly to express the self outwardly. Thus sankirtan, meeting precisely the natural condition of jivas in in this day and age, is the miraculous shortcut for going easily from misfortune to the greatest fortune. Its the easy solution arranged by providence which is simultaneously HIS-HER incredible eternal lila. A matter of pure joy.
So Radharam Charan Das' insight was quite right with his use of the word "reverse" in relation to internal bhajan to outward shared bhajan. In a syncronicity type of way ;D that word even confirms this theory of reversing misfortune to great fortune. There is validity in isolated bhajan, but the shortcut is really in seeing God in the person(s) next to us.
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Post by Nitaidas on Jun 8, 2009 9:36:49 GMT -6
Wow! A lot has transpired here in the last day and a half. Where is backlash now? O, he's probably on life-support. Old fart!
Anyway, i wanted to weigh in here on this topic of the comparative merits of bhajan and sankirtana. I think they are both necessary, maybe even inseparable. Mani Babu gives a nice example in Nectar of the Holy Name. He compares them both to medicine. The Doctor (Mahaprabhu) prescribed two medicines: Harinama-japa (bhajan) and Harinama-sankirtan. One is in pill form and the other is in liquid form. One will get better by taking either one or the other, but it will take longer. Take both and recovery will be rapid and complete.
Perhaps the problem arises in what people think bhajan means. It basically means mantra-smaranam and harinamajapa. So sitting alone and chanting at least a lakh of Nama is bhajan. There might also be lila-smaranam, but as Mani Babu demonstrated so nicely there does not have to be. Thus, bhajana is meditation (dhyana) on the Nama and perhaps also on lila. That feeds and nourishes sankirtan and sankirtan feeds and nourishes bhajan. I know of no genuine bhajananandis who don't also do sankirtana, but sadly I know of many sankirtaniyas who do not do bhajan. They are like chariots with one broken wheel.
It pains me to hear someone say "I don't like solitary bhajan." If one does not love the divine name enough to sit and repeat it attentively for 4-6 hours, where will one's attention be when doing sankirtana? "Wow, I am a good musician! That is a sweet melody. Is she watching me play? Is he listening to how beautiful my voice is? Shall I muster up some tears?" Etc., etc. Hardly the stuff of spiritual upliftment.
Prabhupada Sanatana says in his commentary on the Brhad-bhagavatamrta (on 2.3.153): vayam tu dhyanam sankirtanam ca dvayam eva sevyam manyamahe: We think both meditation and sankirtana should be practiced.
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Post by Nitaidas on Jun 8, 2009 10:08:57 GMT -6
If anybody wants to understand these issues better, I highly recommend Manindranath Guha's book Nectar of the Holy Name. We did not publish it just because we had a copy. We published it because it has a lot of great things to teach that don't get taught in IGM, or anywhere else for that matter. It may not be perfect, but it is the best there is at present, as far as I know. You can see it here.
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Post by Sakhicharan Das on Jun 8, 2009 10:52:15 GMT -6
It pains me to hear someone say "I don't like solitary bhajan." If one does not love the divine name enough to sit and repeat it attentively for 4-6 hours, where will one's attention be when doing sankirtana? "Wow, I am a good musician! That is a sweet melody. Is she watching me play? Is he listening to how beautiful my voice is? Shall I muster up some tears?" Etc., etc. Hardly the stuff of spiritual upliftment. Nitai Ji, this is the opposite of my understanding. Through the power of sankirtan in the sanga of Vaisnavas ones mind is much more forcefully drawn to the Name. Through such purification one will then be able to sit in a solitary place and do japa attentively for considerable periods of time.
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Post by Nitaidas on Jun 8, 2009 11:17:56 GMT -6
Well, Sanatana lays it out pretty clearly in the BB. They feed on and nourish each other. At 2.3.153 he says:
sankirtanAddhyAnamsukham vivardhate| dhyAnAcca sankirtanamAdhurIsukham||
"From Sankirtana, the bliss of dhyana is increased and from dhyana the bliss of the sweetness of sankirtana is increased."
It is not an either/or proposition.
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Post by Sakhicharan Das on Jun 8, 2009 11:51:46 GMT -6
Well, Sanatana lays it out pretty clearly in the BB. They feed on and nourish each other. At 2.3.153 he says: sankirtanAddhyAnamsukham vivardhate| dhyAnAcca sankirtanamAdhurIsukham|| "From Sankirtana, the bliss of dhyana is increased and from dhyana the bliss of the sweetness of sankirtana is increased." It is not an either or proposition. I made my statement with this verse from zrIman nAmAmRta sindhu bindu that you translated in mind, where you quote Sanatan Goswami thus; "Krsna! Slipping out of the threads of zravaNa, you are again caught by the ropes of dhyAna. Escaping from those, too, you are captured by the chains of saGkIrtana of your Name. Unsettled by bhakti for you, I will never let you go now that I have you. You are surrounded and tightly held, Wearer of Yellow Silk."
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