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Post by Sakhicharan Das on Jul 24, 2009 11:27:10 GMT -6
If there is something other than all that fault-finding then maybe I will go back to that site and see the good stuff it has to offer.  |
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Post by Sutapad on Jul 24, 2009 11:32:12 GMT -6
Saag,
I doubt many people can claim to be "very familiar" with Paramahansa Yogananda's life beyond that famous autobiography. Unless he left a great deal of his life unmentioned, whatever transpires in that book does make him look materialistic in a final analisys, as Gerard mentioned. This does not mean that the biography did and does not inspire genuine spiritual search in readers - it did and continues to do. But speaking strictly of the yogi's experiences and realizations, the goal he recomends is a basically materialistic one.
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Post by saag on Jul 24, 2009 11:36:58 GMT -6
If there is something other than all that fault-finding then maybe I will go back to that site and see the good stuff it has to offer. Satyeswarananda as I said is a bit over the top in regards to tooting his own whistle about his directly being in contact with Mahamuni Babaji, but again he has some interesting stuff there... However, I do not like his criticisms of Yoganandaji and think he was a bit jealous frankly, anyone who knows of Kechari Mudra would know it is not suitable for beginners on the path of Kriya.. namaskar, saag svamigalji |
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Post by saag on Jul 24, 2009 12:03:21 GMT -6
Saag, I doubt many people can claim to be "very familiar" with Paramahansa Yogananda's life beyond that famous autobiography. Unless he left a great deal of his life unmentioned, whatever transpires in that book does make him look materialistic in a final analisys, as Gerard mentioned. This does not mean that the biography did and does not inspire genuine spiritual search in readers - it did and continues to do. But speaking strictly of the yogi's experiences and realizations, the goal he recomends is a basically materialistic one. Thats a pretty uninformed analysis sorry to say, AOAY was basically for a western audience, you need to dig a little deeper into Kriya history to get more details of Yoganandas life from others who knew him well in India: Here's a link that shows some of what I mean, but based on your response I have a feeling I am throwing pearls before swine here: www.yoganiketan.net/yogananda/yogananda_sanga.pdfThe goal of Kriya is hardly materialistic, why don't you explain how you come to that conclusion? (PS are you that Gerard of GR incognito? ) ;D |
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Post by Sutapad on Jul 24, 2009 12:57:23 GMT -6
I checked the site, thank you (the link didn't work but I typed the url). I admit I am not deeply read on the subject of Kriya yoga. I don't think I will be prioritizing yet, perhaps in the future.
I am concerned with this autobiography especifically (after all it was written for me, a westerner ;D). Again, I wasn't impressed by the spirituality claimed in the pages of this book. But I remove my hat to the yogi's call for universal peace and brotherhood; its a good start and one the world tends to neglect.
Shanti.
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Post by gerard on Jul 24, 2009 14:47:34 GMT -6
Saag, I doubt many people can claim to be "very familiar" with Paramahansa Yogananda's life beyond that famous autobiography. Unless he left a great deal of his life unmentioned, whatever transpires in that book does make him look materialistic in a final analisys, as Gerard mentioned. This does not mean that the biography did and does not inspire genuine spiritual search in readers - it did and continues to do. But speaking strictly of the yogi's experiences and realizations, the goal he recomends is a basically materialistic one. Thats a pretty uninformed analysis sorry to say, AOAY was basically for a western audience, you need to dig a little deeper into Kriya history to get more details of Yoganandas life from others who knew him well in India: Here's a link that shows some of what I mean, but based on your response I have a feeling I am throwing pearls before swine here: www.yoganiketan.net/yogananda/yogananda_sanga.pdfThe goal of Kriya is hardly materialistic, why don't you explain how you come to that conclusion? (PS are you that Gerard of GR incognito? ) ;D Well, we were talking about that particular book and not what might be behind it if you dig deeper into the background of Kriya Yoga. With materialistic I don't mean that he wanted "gold & women" but that he was mainly describing the subtle planes of existence where his guru can suddenly "materialize" and other feats from the astral plane but not the higher or highest planes of existence. Of course it would be neat to be able to materialize when and where you want, but what is the point? Furthermore, if we do look a bit further, if you look at Lahiri Mahasay's (his paramguru) interpretation of the Bhagavad Gita you'll will not find much spirituality there either but an incoherent mess (or mass?) of allegorizations. And lastly, what is incognito about "Gerard"? That happens to be my name  |
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Post by saag on Jul 24, 2009 16:50:54 GMT -6
Oh excuse me I didn’t know you were the moderator here
They are called mystic siddhis, what is the point? I guess it depends on how they are used and for what, I certainly don’t think that if someone attained to that level it’s not insignificant like you imply.
What..! you tell me not to get sidetracked in the discussion and now your on Lahari Babas Gita interpretation??
I bet you never got past the 1st chapter
I asked if the person before was you incognito, pretty straight forward actually
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Post by Ekantin on Jul 24, 2009 17:56:55 GMT -6
I also don't think there is much "materialistic" in Yogananda. One should familiarise with his teachings/lectures as given in the books 'Man's Eternal Quest' and 'The Divine Romance' to see just how materialistic he is.
On another note, how can we be sure Haidakhandi Wale Babe is the same as Babaji in AOAY? Some time ago I was good friends with a sincere Yogananda follower, and he told me that one should be careful of claims to be the reincarnation of Babaji. I have always remembered that. Recently my interest in Haidakhandi Wale Baba was revived, I've always enjoyed looking at photos of him at a young age, looking like a very intense and consummate yogi. When I did a Google Image search recently, I came across a couple of websites with gurus who are either alive right now or recently passed away and claiming to be the incarnation of Babaji. I'm a bit sceptical of all these claims. I'm not sure they are reincarnations. According to the legend, Babaji continually reincarnates if necessary in order to assist and uplift humanity towards enlightenment, but if he is such a great figure then I always found it pretty odd that few had heard of him until the publication of AOAY.
So which Babaji did Bijoy Krishna Gosvami take diksa from, Haidakhandi Baba or the "original" mysterious Babaji?
I have a couple of books of Haidakhandi Baba's teachings and I wouldn't have thought they were consonant with Vaishnava siddhanta. They seem to be filled with apocalyptic predictions and leaning towards Saivite views.
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Post by saag on Jul 24, 2009 18:07:03 GMT -6
I myself am not convinced that Haidakhandi Baba is Mahamuni Babaji at all. Nor do I think this guy below was either:  And from what I have understood it was Mahamuni Babaji that Vijay Krishna Gosvami and Yogamaya Devi took diksha from and had mystical experiences with in the himalayas. |
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Post by Sutapad on Jul 24, 2009 18:39:26 GMT -6
Ekantin, if you read carefully, you will see that what has been said here is that Paramahansa Yogananda's famous autobiography rings materialistic to some people. His other writings are not being discussed, he could very well be an extremely spiritual man as you and Saag insist. But for those who only read his Autobiography of a Yogi, he comes across quite shallow in his spirituality. Its the Autobiography of a Yogi that is being discussed, not his other books. For some people, its hard to get past that first impression and read other works by him. Do you yourself think the Autobiography of a Yogi in itself is a sample of the high level of spirituality of Paramahansa Yogananda? Just wondering.
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Post by saag on Jul 24, 2009 20:15:03 GMT -6
Ekantin, if you read carefully, you will see that what has been said here is that Paramahansa Yogananda's famous autobiography rings materialistic to some people. His other writings are not being discussed, he could very well be an extremely spiritual man as you and Saag insist. But for those who only read his Autobiography of a Yogi, he comes across quite shallow in his spirituality. Its the Autobiography of a Yogi that is being discussed, not his other books. For some people, its hard to get past that first impression and read other works by him. Do you yourself think the Autobiography of a Yogi in itself is a sample of the high level of spirituality of Paramahansa Yogananda? Just wondering. I am not a follower of Yogananda, nor am I here to preach his path, but I have read and enjoyed AOAY many times throughout the years and am somewhat familiar with the lessor known Kriya tradition in India. And from an objective outsider point of view I dont think Yogananda was materialistic. Now if you do fine, but please, your point would be better taken if you would explain why you think he was or is that not possible? and if it's not possible your just playing games.. |
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Post by Sutapad on Jul 24, 2009 21:25:45 GMT -6
Oh sorry I thought it was explained reasonably well: In the biography, although its clear that PY was a man of goodwill, his overall take on spirituality seems shallow. All through the narrative he puts so much importance in yoga sidhis such as appearing and disappearing, miraculous cures, etc. that one wonders if he wasn't actually pulling the collective leg with those stories. But anyway, even if they were actual events, who, as Gerard put it, cares? In the 1920's when PY first came to the West perhaps the snake charming and levitation acts where considered the supra summum of spirituality. But even then, and certainly in present times, such miraculous feats are hardly representatives of developed philosophies. Yogananda seems to recommend that human beings become expert magicians themselves or worship such magicians, and all perfection will come from that. There is no in-depth elaboration on the nature of God, the soul, and the relationship between the two.
In any case, I admire the man for his accomplishments, but I stand by my opinion that the spirituality he offers (in the Autobiography) is mundane, one of commerce with God. Like that of the Christians. In the book, he makes several paralles between his sadhus and Jesus Christ. "He became Christ like", he says, as in forgiving, curing the ill, feeding the hungry, performing acts of goodwill for a proportional good payoff. There is nothing wrong with charity and goodwill. Its called civilization. But that can be had in a purely materialistic world. As far as spirituality goes, the world doesn't want to become only Christ like and nothing more. The world wants and needs to become something more specific. More... well, spiritual.
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Post by Sakhicharan Das on Jul 24, 2009 21:40:04 GMT -6
I myself am not convinced that Haidakhandi Baba is Mahamuni Babaji at all. Nor do I think this guy below was either: And from what I have understood it was Mahamuni Babaji that Vijay Krishna Gosvami and Yogamaya Devi took diksha from and had mystical experiences with in the himalayas. The person in the picture above I certainly don't think is Babaji. Now the author of the "Sri Babaji" book I am reading believes that Hairakhandi Baba is the same person as Mahamuni Babaji. Saag dasji, what makes you think that he isn't? |
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Post by saag on Jul 24, 2009 21:57:56 GMT -6
Oh sorry I thought it was explained reasonably well: In the biography, although its clear that PY was a man of goodwill, his overall take on spirituality seems shallow. All through the narrative he puts so much importance in yoga sidhis such as appearing and disappearing, miraculous cures, etc. that one wonders if he wasn't actually pulling the collective leg with those stories. But anyway, even if they were actual events, who, as Gerard put it, cares? In the 1920's when PY first came to the West perhaps the snake charming and levitation acts where considered the supra summum of spirituality. But even then, and certainly in present times, such miraculous feats are hardly representatives of developed philosophies. Yogananda seems to recommend that human beings become expert magicians themselves or worship such magicians, and all perfection will come from that. There is no in-depth elaboration on the nature of God, the soul, and the relationship between the two. In any case, I admire the man for his accomplishments, but I stand by my opinion that the spirituality he offers (in the Autobiography) is mundane, one of commerce with God. Like that of the Christians. In the book, he makes several paralles between his sadhus and Jesus Christ. "He became Christ like", he says, as in forgiving, curing the ill, feeding the hungry, performing acts of goodwill for a proportional good payoff. There is nothing wrong with charity and goodwill. Its called civilization. But that can be had in a purely materialistic world. As far as spirituality goes, the world doesn't want to become only Christ like and nothing more. The world wants and needs to become something more specific. More... well, spiritual. A lot of people have expressed that Yoganandas presentation was too Christianized, I have thought that myself and still do frankly. What is more spiritual to you? |
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Post by saag on Jul 24, 2009 21:59:56 GMT -6
I myself am not convinced that Haidakhandi Baba is Mahamuni Babaji at all. Nor do I think this guy below was either: And from what I have understood it was Mahamuni Babaji that Vijay Krishna Gosvami and Yogamaya Devi took diksha from and had mystical experiences with in the himalayas. The person in the picture above I certainly don't think is Babaji. Now the author of the "Sri Babaji" book I am reading believes that Hairakhandi Baba is the same person as Mahamuni Babaji. Saag dasji, what makes you think that he isn't? I think that because orthodox Kriyabans say Babaji will never allow a photo to be taken of himself. |
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