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Post by JD33 on Jun 28, 2020 13:04:08 GMT -6
Nitai-Gaur, Radhey-Shyam; Hare Krsna, Hare Ram.
It is Diksa. As a Holy Event in one's life. It is a life-changing experience usually. I was in a profoundly altered state for 6 months after the event.
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Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Jul 11, 2020 13:42:03 GMT -6
Holy diksa is the opposite of what you get from IGM. From IGM you get a manufactured diksa, that usually comes with a certificate of ownership for the so-called guru putting the certificate in his pocket.
😇😁
It also helps the institutional numbers of members for the might makes right doctrine that helps support IGM's (non) legitimacy. Only counted are the numbers manufactured, not the number of people leaving in disgust out the back door. Of course some are thrown or kicked out. Some are abused and used first and then quietly escorted and so the story goes. You see, the little people are to be used and/or engaged in "Krishna's service" and once one is of no use or once one begins to question the charade, your days are numbered. And once a person is exited, the exitee is also branded as heretical, as how could one ever think of leaving such a holy, grand, and magnanimous institution.
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Post by JD33 on Jul 12, 2020 19:07:16 GMT -6
Nitai-Gaur, Radhey-Shyam; Hare Krsna, Hare Ram.
Interesting information - and I can see how one can be embroiled in it - at some point one must let go and live the authentic loving life. It seems like a traumatic set of experiences, which is tragic. Following the Gita and other similar texts, we need to forgive and move on; move on in such a way as to not bring up the trauma anymore, nor the tragedy ( I tell myself ! ). What was it a Babaji said in relation to IGM: paraphrase: 'We do not criticize other traditions.' As difficult as it is - at some point we refrain from re-living such things ( I tell myself !! ).
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Post by meeno8 on Jul 23, 2020 18:27:06 GMT -6
Mother, it is no gain, thy bondage of finery, if it keep one shut off from the healthful dust of the earth, if it rob one of the right of entrance to the great fair of common human life.
- Rabindranatha Tagore, Bengali poet and Nobel laureate
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Post by malati on Oct 2, 2020 10:03:39 GMT -6
Why should anyone be bothered about all that sectarian business? Books are available for any literate individual. I think all these party rivalries and and loyalties should just be allowed fade away. I came through the Hare Krishna movement to Gaudiya Mission to Gadadhar pran das to finally reveling in the obscurity of a non aligned Bhagavatam reader, and adherent of Vaisnava doctrines which like me best. I hope that is not too disagreeable. I am very aware that such an independent attitude is generally disapproved of, and I've heard the usual objections. Still, it just seems to me too trivial to be overly concerned about divergent sects and opinions. Each according appetite and capacity I suppose. Although, having said that, I do like to launch into some anti Christian invective. Please don't take offence. I only want to understand your position. From reading your post, the way you phrase, " I came through Hare Krishna ......... to non aligned Bhagavatam reader......" it seems to me that you have not taken diksha initiation from a traditional line. Do you think there is empowerment in diksha ? Do you think a non initiated will get the full picture of the path to prema that was established by the foundational acharya and refined by the contemporary gurus of the tradition? And if you are indeed not initiated, what's holding you back into getting it?
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Post by madanmohandas on Oct 2, 2020 10:48:27 GMT -6
Thanks, Malati, for wanting to understand my position, but it changes and develops. It seems to me that schools were established to perpetuate traditions as the custodians of texts and practices, which might be redundant since the introduction of printing. I think the latter schools fall into an elitist and obscurantist tendency and impose upon the followers with ulterior motives. Then again there is a kind of pride in pedigree which expects honour on the back of achievements of predecessors. And then there is the inevitable rivalry. Still, I have no objection if people assert the contrary as it is just my subjective speculation, despite the fact that I do occasionally express it; more as a way of raising a subject for discussion rather than asserting a position.
As for getting the full picture of the path to prema, who can say? But the founding acharya would not have foreseen, perhaps, how it would be taken up in the 20th century by foreigners.
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Post by meeno8 on Oct 2, 2020 13:57:07 GMT -6
The orthodoxy (mainstream CV) really has no inevitable rivalry to speak of, and there is respect all the way around. That is it. Full stop.
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Post by madanmohandas on Oct 4, 2020 13:46:10 GMT -6
Well, I hesitate to contradict you, but schism and rivalry can be seen even in Chatanya Bhagavat and Chaitanya Charitamrta. I am perfectly aware that my thinking is against the general consensus, but I do not what to be pinned down to any particular authority. I think that probably disqualifies me for acceptance anyway. Well, as for that, may I presume that your 'full stop' means you've heard enough heresy? J/k
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Post by meeno8 on Oct 6, 2020 21:25:54 GMT -6
What I meant to say was that, despite any philosophical differences, I am not aware of any schisms in mainstream CV that are the source of any animosity between lineages.
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Post by meeno8 on Oct 6, 2020 21:35:46 GMT -6
Whew... this thread just keeps on growing, does it not?
Here is another thought to weave into the fabric of this tapestry: That there is no need to steal the Divine Couple away from any one place, e.g. the land known as 'Bharata' or India, because they are here in cyberspace, and here on this website, having been invoked by the sadhakas that inhabit this realm of electrons in circuitry on servers (clouds), on laptops, on iPads, on smart phones, and perhaps in microwave ovens and refrigerators in the internet of things, or IoT.
What is the nature of this realm, that has become known as the world wide web? On one hand, it is a source of misinformation and disinformation that are tools of those that seek to disrupt society or bring about changes that are definitely not for the better. On the other hand, as with this site, it illuminates via knowledge, because in that context it is bright like a light bulb that is lit by a flow of electrons through a circuit of alternating current.
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Post by madanmohandas on Oct 6, 2020 23:39:34 GMT -6
Yes, indeed, perhaps like most things it (www) is mixed blessing, or rather neutral and just depends on the individual whether to learn and improve or not as the case may be. I do not think we need to even consider stealing the divine couple since there are many references that propose they give themselves freely, aatmaatmada hari. And some saints have said rhetorically,, Where is he not?
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Post by madanmohandas on Oct 8, 2020 4:29:04 GMT -6
The British Govt. stole the Kohinoor diamond when they annexed the Punjab, despite the fact that Ranjit Singh, the Napoleon of the east, had bequeathed it by testimony to the priests, to Jagannatha in Puri. I was thinking if the future king offered to return it in exchange for allowing the public to enter the temple, that would be cool. The mystery of the jewel is quite fascinating, and some tradition has it that it is indeed the Shyamantaka or part thereof. Also, according to tradition again, the jewel is beneficent under a female ruler, (as with Victoria, and since 1953 Elizabeth II). The next reign will probably be under a male, when the jewel is supposed to be maleficent. There is a book about it by William Dalrymple.
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Jon
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by Jon on Nov 12, 2020 3:16:29 GMT -6
Esteemed mahashoys: We ask: Could Kalki's horse fly over water? IF GARUDA can fly interplanetary, this horse should be able to skip over water ( if it's a real horse, not a metaphorical one) Kalki will be moving around on his carrier lopping off remaining heads. (I guess in the spiritual domain, anything is possible esp when it's an incarnation, just see how quickly Krishna moved between locations in India on chariots) and with today's transport it takes days by train. Shiva moves on a bull, and Durga on a tiger - fascinating... Major devotees in animal form serving God. Real cool that Bhagavan is an animal rights champion ! But Kalki's birth will be in India. Will India be in a position to sustain human life half million years from now? By the super-mystic power of Bhagavan, it will obviously. These things take faith to believe in. We don't know enough to challenge anything. Bhagavan is so gracious to give the opp to help us realize we don't know much (me ie.). I give thanks to the sun-god daily for providing light to see my own hands...Even pratyaksha depends on Him. I wonder if there'll be a Kalki at the end of this age. I understand that while (most of) IGM teach that Kalki will come around as normal, many traditional Vaisnavas, as well at least one IGMer ( Narayana Maharaja), say there won't be a Kalki-avatara in this age, as Krsna himself came as Mahaprabhu, turning it into a "golden age". From some cursory research, it seems this idea was propagated by Kanupriya Goswami (by whom, I think, Nitai prabhu has translated several books) in the 1920s–30s. I wonder how much older this idea is (Kanupriya was in the Nitai parivara)…
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Post by service to Radha's feet on Jan 19, 2021 21:49:20 GMT -6
Jaya Radhe. I like this topic of bringing Radha and Krishna here in the USA. I have thought in the past if I should spend the rest of my days in India or not when I can do the same bhajan here? I can chant here, sing kirtan, worship my Murtis, meditate on the lilas, hear the stories of Radha and Krishna. If I go to India, I would be a foreigner there. Trips to India get expensive too. I think also that many great souls in the past would perhaps make a pilgrimage to Vraja once in their lives and that was it. They would not all return. I do not think it is realistic to think that we should make our lives of bhakti in India because the quality of bhajan there would be so much better. There are distractions there too. I have seen many of Guru brothers and sisters make a hard effort to live in India only to get burned out and leave the bhakti path. I concur with Nitai Das Ji that if bhakti is strong and intense that the experience of Radha and Krishna will be there, regardless of location.
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Post by meeno8 on Jan 21, 2021 16:29:13 GMT -6
The sacred dhamas of Braj-mandal and Nabadwip, among others, are obviously special places geographically. We can certainly create our own sacred spaces with our bhajan and puja, and since you have Murtis on an altar, even moreso. That is just a mandir in its own right as one of the old large mandirs in Vrindavan or Govindaji Mandir at Jaipur. I really think that creating our own sacred spaces here in the west either individally or collectively in groups is effective enough to steal the Divine Couple.
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