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Post by malati on Sept 20, 2020 17:22:14 GMT -6
Pandit Nitadasji Please enlighten me. There are the sat sandharba, bhagavat sandharba and the one you mentioned tattva sandarbha. Are they different from each other or are they parts of a corpus of work.
When the Jiva Inst. released their sandharba series I thought of buying them; if you print your edition I will buy.
Agree, maybe you would want to pass the baton to the younger devotees by encouraging them, directing them to resources which can help them to learn the language and the ways of translations. In short mentoring them.
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Post by Nitaidas on Sept 22, 2020 12:10:15 GMT -6
Pandit Nitadasji Please enlighten me. There are the sat sandharba, bhagavat sandharba and the one you mentioned tattva sandarbha. Are they different from each other or are they parts of a corpus of work. When the Jiva Inst. released their sandharba series I thought of buying them; if you print your edition I will buy. Agree, maybe you would want to pass the baton to the younger devotees by encouraging them, directing them to resources which can help them to learn the language and the ways of translations. In short mentoring them. Greetings Malatidasi, राधे राधे ! Good question. The major philosophical treatise of the Caitanya Tradition is the work of Sri Jiva which is called the Sat-sandarbha or the Six Treatises. It is also called the Bhagavata-sandarbha because the six works are mainly concerned with interpreting the Bhagavata Purana in a way consonant with the developing views of the tradition. The work was apparently begun by Gopala Bhatta Goswami and was reorganized and completed by Sri Jiva. The six treatises each have their own names and an order. The first is the Tattva-sandarbha and seeks to establish the pramanas or the most authentic sources of knowledge for the teachings of the tradition. That Sri Jiva argues is the Bhagavata Purana for this age since the Vedas have largely been lost and are difficult to understand. Based on that pramana one discovers certain truths which become the truths of the Caitanya tradition. These I have listed and discussed in another thread. The second treatise (sandarbha) is the Bhagavat-sandarbha which is primarily concerned with defining what is meant by Bhagavat, i.e. the supreme Lord as endowed with all his infinite powers or saktis. Remove all those saktis and you have Brahman, or rather, a person incapable of perceiving all those saktis in Bhagavan perceives Brahman. Another person capable of perceiving all those saktis perceives Bhagavan. The third treatise is called the Paramatma-sandarbha is is about Bhagavan in connection with this world, i.e., as connected with only two saktis, the jiva-sakti and the maya-sakti. The fourth treatise is called the Krsna-sandarbha and establishes Krsna as the fullest form of Bhagavan. The fifth treatise is called the Bhakti-sandarbha and is about the nature and power of bhakti to overcome maya and bring one into intimacy with Krsna. Finally, there is the Priti-sandarbha which defines and illuminates the nature of preman or love of Krsna. On these treatises Sri Jiva has written his own commentary on the first four called the Sarva-samvadini in which he expands them in brilliant ways. In the Ss on the Bhagavat-sandarbha he presents the analysis which has become the defining feature of our tradition as a Vedantic philosophy: acintya-bhedAbheda vada, If you have the money, I would go ahead and order the set of sandarbha translations produced by the Jiva Institute. My poor efforts will never match theirs. Though I prefer a more critical and scholarly approach, at present and perhaps forever they are the only game in town. I would strictly avoid anything produced by IGM. They are not bound in any way to the truth. In my view, all members of the tradition should at least be familiar with the first of the sandarbhas, the Tattva-sandarbha. I have some books in my possession that present decent summaries in English of all the sandarbhas. I will make those available here either in scans or in text. Hope this helps. राधे श्याम गौर !
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kd91
Full Member
Radhe Radhe.
Posts: 107
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Post by kd91 on Sept 23, 2020 3:54:30 GMT -6
From a comm. of SND on a verse of PS. 93.6. This is Superstition in the mind of the commentator. Black cats, Watch out! Attachments:
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Post by Nitaidas on Sept 23, 2020 13:52:10 GMT -6
From a comm. of SND on a verse of PS. 93.6. This is Superstition in the mind of the commentator. I will be happy if anybody from that institute can prove me wrong. Black cats, Watch out! Well these sorts of things are part of the social contexts of the texts we take as scriptures. I don't think we need to take them seriously. They can be viewed as adding to the rasa-build up of the narrative. We don't need to believe in these foolish things ourselves, but understand that the characters who people the stories might believe and be affected by them. For instance, at the book club that Nilamadhavadas hosts every Sunday, we read the story of the subduing of Kaliya by Krsna from the 10th Skandha. In the story Nanda and the gopas noticed inauspicious portents when Krsna was gripped in the coils of Kaliya (from Edwin Bryant's translation): 10.16.12. Then three kinds of extremely terrifying and ominous portents -- on the earth, in the sky, and on people -- arose in Vraj. They forewarned of imminent danger.
[Bryant's note on this verse: Earth portents include earthquakes and other natural calamities, sky portents the raining of blood or meteors, and bodily portents the quivering of certain parts of the anatomy.] 10.16.13. Learning that Krsna had gone to graze the cows without Balarama, the gopas led by Nanda, were struck with fear on seeing these portents.10.16.14. Because of the inauspicious signs, and unaware of who Krsna really was, the gopas thought Krsna had met his death. Their minds were absorbed in Krsna and they had surrendered their life to him, and so they were struck by fear, distress and pain.These are the vibhavas (excitants, stimulants) and anubhavas (consequents) of the sthayibhava bhaya (fear) which becomes the rasa bhayAnaka (horror) and that is subjugated to krsna-rati, love for Krsna. It acts like a vyabhicari-bhava and strengthens the rasa of prema like a smaller wave in the ocean causing a surge or increase in a larger ocean. One does not need to believe in the portents to taste the rasa of the situation. The bhakti-rasa experience is central to the CV tradition. This is the way I view these "superstitions." They are part of a story meant to evoke the bhakti-rasa of Krsna-preman. If one allows oneself to overlook those unlikelihoods, the rasa experience is sweet and powerful. In other words, don't let them distract you.
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Post by meeno8 on Sept 24, 2020 10:45:36 GMT -6
Here is a subject I have been pondering the past 45 years. On the one had Krsna is the source of Mahavishna and all the latter's plenary expansions along with their respective consorts. On the other hand, Krisna and Balaram are described in at least one place in the literature as being a black and white hair on the chest of Narayan. Is this just something to be chalked up to yet another feature of the theological framework that is acintya?
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Post by Nitaidas on Dec 17, 2020 16:51:54 GMT -6
Greetings All,
Sorry for my absence here of late. I do check in occasionally to see what is going on and to read Madanmohandasji's latest, wonderful heroic couplets in translation of the Bhagavata and other sacred texts.
I have been somewhat swept away by the tides of the season here. Christmas looms ahead of us and grandchildren will be arriving to pretend they believe in Santa so that they can lay claim to the presents, labeled with their names, that will appear under a decorated evergreen tree in our parlor on December 25. We don't want them to be disappointed. So, we will enter the new year, hopefully a much better one than this one has been, a week later considerably poorer, but with happy kids and grandkids.
I have been focusing my attention on the introduction to the Upadasa-sara that features Madanmohandasji's translations of the three short texts of instruction that comprise it. It has turned into a much larger task than I imagined when I took in on. The last few months have been a protracted meditation on those texts in order to try and isolate their meanings and intentions. I have had a lot of help along the way, from Manindranath Guha's commentary on the Siksastaka of Mahaprabhu to the mystical realizations of the great Christian mystic Meister Eckhart (1260-1329 CE). Of course I mix in my own understanding of the text along the way and have helped myself to the insights of Radhagovinda Nath, Bimanbihari Majumdar, and Narescandra Jana. As for the UpadesAmrta, I have come to suspect that it is not really by Rupa at all and have marshaled some observations and arguments that draw suspicion on the text. Even if I am right and it is not the work of Rupa Goswami, whoever the author was did incorporate some of the teachings of Rupa into the text. It is, therefore, not a waste of time to read and study. Finally, there is Raghunatha Das Goswami, to whom I am embarrassed to admit I never paid much attention. In researching Raghunatha Das I have come to see him and his work in a new light. He of all the Vrindaban Goswamis was the only one who really knew Mahaprabhu and who provided the basis for Krsnadasa Kaviraja's description of him. He received special personal attention from Mahaprabhu and served him closely for 16 years before his departure from the world. There is much to be learned from studying his works. He is the source of the descriptions of Mahaprabhu's disfiguring ecstasies that are found in KdK's Cc. It never occurred to me before how different his view of Sri Caitanya must be from that of Rupa and Sanatana who spent relatively little time with him. At any rate, I am almost done and will post it here for the members of the site when I am.
Happy Holidays to all! May Nanda's son and Vrsabhanu's daughter smile on you all.
राधे राधे जय राधे
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Post by Nitaidas on Feb 22, 2021 13:42:34 GMT -6
Greetings All,
Sorry I have not been around more. I have been working away on my various translation and editing projects, but I find that I am extraordinarily slow these days. I have always been slow, but that slowness has increased lately as have my susceptibility to distraction. I have revived several old projects instead of focusing on the ones closest to hand that I should push over the finish line. The reason for this is I have been contacted by a couple of bhaktas who asked about things I worked on long ago, but never finished. One was interested in the Asta-kaliya-paddhati I started years back compiled by Madanmohan Das Babaji. This bhakta's Gurudev asked him to learn the practices associated with that smarana practice and wondered if I had done more on that text. I felt ashamed to admit that I had not. But, that got me thinking about those texts, specifically those based on Siddha Krsnadas Baba's methods. So, I bugged my gurubhai Minaketana Rama Das to scan the gutika of Gopaladas which our Gurudev recommended for that practice. He obliged me, Radhika's blessings be upon him, and I have been looking those over with an eye towards helping this Russian disciple of Sri Pranakrishna Das Baba, who is another of our gurubhais, I believe. This is distraction number one.
Distraction number two came in the form of another bhakta who is a disciple of a disciple of Siddha Manohar Das Babaji. He asked me for the bio of Siddha Baba by Navadvip Das. I looked into that and found again that it was incomplete. Nevertheless, I sent what I had to him, but felt embarrassed again and started to fill in the gaps in that work. Now, thanks to Nilamadhavadasji we have two works of Siddha Baba that I thought were lost, i.e., the two parts of the Sri Gaura-govinda-nama-kirtana-ratna-mala, which can now be added to the appendices of that book along with the other works of Siddha Baba. Those other works of Siddha Baba are also incomplete. So, the desire to finish those arose in me, too, and have taken my attention away from the Upadesha-sara which perches on the edge of completion. I am sorry, Madanmohandasji. I have four verses of Raghunatha Das's Sri Gauranga-stava-kalpa-taru to finish in order to send that book off to the press. I will bump that up to the top of the list and finish it today. My problem is that I feel like I am in the middle of a candy store surrounded by so many delectable sweets and that it is hard to focus on any one of them. I won't even mention some of the other delicious sandesh that have revived my interest and desires in them. I feel so lucky to be in this mishtidokan in the first place and also to be able to reach out and pop one of these sweets in my mouth (or ears).
More later. I must get to work now. Coming next: "I did the calculations" and "Buddhist shamata meditation weekend." Oh and Nityananda Prabhu's Janma din on Wednesday.
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Post by service to Radha's feet on Feb 22, 2021 21:04:20 GMT -6
Nitai Das ji, your contributions of the Gaudiya Vaisnava literature to be made available in English is amazing. I pray Sri Radha keeps you in good health and have many more years of seva.
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Post by Nitaidas on Mar 5, 2021 12:47:33 GMT -6
Nitai Das ji, your contributions of the Gaudiya Vaisnava literature to be made available in English is amazing. I pray Sri Radha keeps you in good health and have many more years of seva. Thank you, Radhapadadasji. Very kind of you to say. I wish I were more efficient and faster, but I am what I am and anything I have managed to complete is by the grace of Guru and Gauranga anyway. You, too, have beautified the tradition with your sonorous voice and beautiful kirtans. Thank you for that. Do you have a youtube channel that we can tune in to hear your singing? May Radhika keep you safe and singing for a long time!
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Post by Nitaidas on Mar 5, 2021 14:54:14 GMT -6
I would like to share some thoughts I have had recently for the consideration of this community. I mentioned that at some point in the last few weeks I did the calculations and was rather amazed. I calculated the number of holy names one recites in the course of a year if one only does one round or, to please my gurubhai Jagadish, mala without fail a day. It comes to 6 and 1/3 lakhs (6.3) (16 x 108 x 365). That number kind of surprised me for some reason. That seems like a huge number to me and if one chants like that for 10 years it becomes 63 lakhs of Harinama. Twenty years 126 lakhs. If one only did one round a day without fail one would become in one year a Lakhezvara six times over. And the thing about doing just one round without fail a day is that it is almost always a really good round with mind focused well on the sounds of the names. Often when one does more the mind wanders and one's attention shifts to other things. One feels impatient to get them done and worries about other things that need doing. I suspect that that first round is generally best one, the one done with a minimum of offensive chanting. Therefore, I recommend it for those who do not ordinarily do nama-japa regularly. One round takes less than ten minutes and who does not have that much time? I believe it is far better to do one good round than 16 or 32 or 64 bad ones. now it is true that Mahaprabhu says in the Caitanya-bhagavata (Antya, 10.121)
prabhu bale, jAno lakSezvara bali kAre| pratidina lakSanAma je grahaNa kare||
The Lord said "Do you know who I call Rich in Lakhs (100,000)? One who everyday chants a lakh of holy names.
Well, one round a day is a far cry from 64 rounds, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, especially if it is a well done round. And one will be a LakSezvara six times over during the year. One becomes Rich in a Lakh six times over. Of course, if one can do them well and has time one can do more. Even if one does only two rounds a day one doubles the number of holy names (12.6).
And if you think nothing but doing a Lakh of Harinama a day makes one a LakSezvara, remember Mahaprabhu said in the Caitanya-caritamrta (Cc Antya 11.24):
prabhu kahe vrddha haiyA saMkhyA alpa kara|\\ siddhadeha tumi sAdhane kene kara?
[Addressing Haridas Thakur], the Lord said, "since you are old do a small number [of holy names]. You have a perfected body. Why do you still do practice?"
I think I will invoke my age here. Pretty sure I am not tricked out with a siddha-deha yet, perhaps not for many more lives. Still, I hope to make it eventually.
Give it some consideration and let me know what you think.
Also on the same topic, there is a passage cited in the Haribhaktivilasa (17,155-59) from the NarasiMha PurANa that says there are three kinds of the japa-yajna: vocal, whispered, and mental (vAcasika, upAMzu, and mAnasa) and latter ones are better than the former ones. So the best is mental, next is whispered and finally vocal. I tend to switch between them when I do japa.
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Post by Ldd on Mar 20, 2021 16:32:53 GMT -6
Seva bhav is the real important dynamic. Suppose ones guru gives 64 rounds to chant but the disciple cannot carry it out — for any reason. What to do ? Big problem, but seva bhav will bring him out of it. It should be figured out back then not long after. You can’t undo mistakes but could learn and keep trying. The philosophy I practice is one good round is better than 64 bad ones.
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Post by service to Radha's feet on Mar 26, 2021 19:53:51 GMT -6
Not sure if I am getting older. Ok, I am sure I am, but I find the mental japa takes less physical energy and so I often do that. When I was younger I used to chant japa out loud and have energy for it, but often times it would not be attentive. I find the mental japa requires more effort to 'listen' in and visualize internally while mentally remembering the Hari Nam mantra. For that reason, it is within the item of smaranam. When I chant out loud, my external senses receive a dose of spiritual sound vibration through the ears and tongue. When chanting out loud I can also do internal visualizations of the maha mantra, lila, or other raganuga bhajan type smaranam. So the last practice is a full chanting and remembering. Perhaps this is what Sri Rupa Goswamipada referred to in Upadeshamrta to chanting and remembering as the essence of instructions.
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Post by Nitaidas on Apr 27, 2021 19:22:56 GMT -6
More on doing the math: From the Kali-santarana Upanisad: He replied to him: “It [the Mahamantra] has no rule. A brāhmaṇa, reciting it always whether in a state of purity or impurity, attains the same world as, the proximity of, the same form as, or union with the Lord. When he recites three and a half koṭi (35,000,000) of the collection of sixteen names, he passes over the killing of a brāhmaṇa; he passes over the killing of a hero; he is purified from the stealing of gold; he is purified from sleeping with a prostitute; he is purified from disrespecting the forefathers, the gods, and humans; he attains purity from the sin of giving up all his duties; he is immediately liberated; he is immediately liberated.” Thus ends the secret teaching. (3) If I chant one good mala everyday without fail it will take 56.72609 years for me to complete 35,000,000 recitations of the holy name. Obviously, I don't have that much time left in this life. If I do 2 good mala a day, it becomes 28.36305 years. This is more like it, but still a bit beyond my reach. If I do 3 good mala a day it will take me 18.9078 years. I would be 89.9 years old. 4 good mala 14.18152 years. I would be 84.1 years old! It is possible that at 84.1 years old I would get liberation! But liberation is not Krnsa-prema.
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bets
New Member
Posts: 27
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Post by bets on Apr 27, 2021 21:43:07 GMT -6
But if you recite all the "Nine Billion Names of God," according to Arthur C. Clarke, you'll cause all the stars to go out. At two seconds per name, that's 4,500,000,000 seconds, or about 142 years--but you'll need sleep and eating time, so to do Arthur C. Clarke's challenge, you'd have to live 284 years. We know that repeating goes much faster than reading nine billion different names would.... Guess the stars are safe.
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Post by Nitaidas on Apr 27, 2021 22:37:56 GMT -6
But if you recite all the "Nine Billion Names of God," according to Arthur C. Clarke, you'll cause all the stars to go out. At two seconds per name, that's 4,500,000,000 seconds, or about 142 years--but you'll need sleep and eating time, so to do Arthur C. Clarke's challenge, you'd have to live 284 years. We know that repeating goes much faster than reading nine billion different names would.... Guess the stars are safe. We will just get one of those automatic sequence computers. They are much faster now. We will have those stars popping out of existence as fast as popcorn in a hot pot! Nine Billion Names of God
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