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Post by openmind on Jan 23, 2011 13:15:31 GMT -6
Bhaktisiddhanta, Bhaktivedanta, Shridhar Maharaj, Narayan Maharaj and all of the others who belong to IGM (ISKCON and Gaudiya Math) are not really initiated into any lineage that goes back to Mahaprabhu or any of his close companions. This is a fact, not an opinion. Therefore they have no right to claim that they belong to or represent the tradition of Mahaprabhu. The biggest problem - in my opinion - is not that they claim to be representatives of the tradition. Let them do so. But they claim from the very beginning that they are the only representatives of the lineage, all others are sahajiyas, apasampradayis, etc. Not even the Six Goswamis, not even Sri Caitanya ever declared this referring to themselves. Noone in the history of GV-ism ever declared himself or his organization as the one and only true representative of the lineage, while rejecting and badmouthing others. Read any text written by the previous acharyas, they totally lack this competitive, discriminative and self-eulogizing attitude. This is the mood of dishonest merchants: "Hey, my potato is the only good potato on the market, all other merchants are cheaters, don't even talk to them, only I sell good potato here!" Would you buy from a guy like this? |
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sita
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Post by sita on Jan 23, 2011 15:55:35 GMT -6
Nitai prabhu, thanks for the reply, it is not what I was hoping to hear, so it will take me some time to come to terms with what you have said and in the mean time I will pray over the issues and see what help I can solicit in that way. I will also talk to Satyanarayanji as I know him quite well, and he appears to be respected on this forum.
I am not very hopefull to be honest that there will much scope for resolution as the differences appear to be very deep rooted, and the damage done.
I have a long history with the Jagannath Mandir in Puri dharm, I have seen and experienced the bitterness between families and heard similar things to what you have said in your reply. I have learn't to live with it because there is no choice. I could also tell you things which you may not believe, and in amongst all the mess I found lord Jagadbandhu, he is even more merciful than Mahaprabhu.
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Post by fiorafemere on Jan 23, 2011 15:58:00 GMT -6
Openmind:
Oh man, you nailed it. That type of preaching sent all kinds of red flags up my way. Then the other thing was too much talks about mayavadis. I once asked one devotee why are there so many negative comments about mayavadis when in the West people don't even understand who the mayavadis were. He wasn't able ti give me an answer since he just said that in India there are many mayavadis. But still, I wondered, why so many negative statements about so many people. That is one of the reasons I just gave up reading those books; needed something that is sweet and flows like a river.
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Post by openmind on Jan 23, 2011 16:31:17 GMT -6
Precisely. After Iskcon I went to Gaudiya Math, expecting them to be totally different. But when I heard the nth class about mayavadi bashing and karmi bashing, I started to wonder... I don't know how others feel, but during those years I got totally and absolutely disgusted with this "we are the best, all others are wrong" attitude. As if GV was some third class product that must be sold very-very quickly. One may argue saying this was the price we paid for GV to reach "each and every village". This sounds nice, but the fact that many people associate the name "Iskcon" or "Hare Krsna" with various scandals is not that nice at all. So one may wonder whether the price was worth it.
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Post by fiorafemere on Jan 24, 2011 12:17:11 GMT -6
In my neck of the woods, rarely anybody knows who the Hare Krishnas are, not to mention them knowing anything about the scandals. As long as there is Harinam the value is there. I was a late comer to Iskcon, mid '90s and at that time nobody bothered to explain things to me, safeguarded secrets of bs that was going on. I had to come on my own and start realizing that something went wrong and saw that shit hit a fan long time before I even met devotees for the first time. So my answer is no, just because there are more and more writings produced by "traditional" CV lineages and more and more bhaktas from the West turning towards them.
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Post by Nityānanda dāsa on May 10, 2019 7:19:57 GMT -6
Thank you both for the wonderful answers. I find this teaching about naam japa from the sermons Sadguru Bijoy krishna Goswami very helpful. 9.Is it easy to make the mind tranquil? Everything becomes achievable when the mind is tranquil. Initially the mind does remain restless, repeating the naam causes disgust. But one should not give up. Even during extreme unwillingness, naam must be repeated, like swallowing distasteful medicines. It will not help if naam is not repeated forcefully. Once this forms a habit, no more problem remains. Unless the practice of naamjapa becomes a habit, this should not be stopped. Effort must continue. Keep trying. By the grace of God you will achieve everything. Thank you for this quote. Where can I find more of the sermons of Sadguru Bijoy Krishna Goswami to read? Radhe Radhe! |
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Post by Nitaidas on May 10, 2019 11:18:00 GMT -6
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jiva
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Post by jiva on Oct 5, 2019 3:12:46 GMT -6
Nitai,
At the moment I can not find a topic on which you said you were not accepted by the academic community, but I wonder why you think that is?
Because you're also a practitioner CV or some other reason?
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 5, 2019 22:50:01 GMT -6
Nitai, At the moment I can not find a topic on which you said you were not accepted by the academic community, but I wonder why you think that is?
Because you're also a practitioner CV or some other reason?
No, it is not that. I just have not been able to find a good job and institutional support. I don't think it has anything to do with my being a practitioner. I just have not been able to find a place that values what I do. In a way it has been good. Teaching is an intense and draining job and it is poorly rewarded anyway. If one does it well, one cannot do much else. If it were not for the support of my wife, I would probably have had to give it up altogether. Anyway, I am still here and still trying to make sense out of CV. |
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jiva
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Post by jiva on Oct 8, 2019 10:57:18 GMT -6
I definetly plan to meet up with Sakhicarana and Vishakha right away, if I didn't know them or Subrata I don't know what i'll do. But even then it is up to Sri Sri Nitai Gaura if i will live or die,they are the most merciful incarnations; i can do nothing without there mercy. Money comes and goes, time keeps on ticking, but I have to make the best of this life,so whatever risk i must take to get diksha;it must be done. plus im tired of being an outsider..... Contact them as soon as you can. Subrata is right there in Atlanta with you, but he will be leaving at the end of the month. Try to get together with him as much as you can. He is a learned and humble Vaisnava who comes from an old and blessed family. Try to get some sanga with him before he goes. As for your trip to India, don't make Sri Sri Gaura and Nitai fish you out of too many tight spots. Make the best plans and arrangements you can from here with your friends on this and other sites and then depend on Thakur if things fail or go wrong (as they always do). Remember who wants to be whose servant. Also, don't be too hasty to take initiation. There are lots of good choices and some bad ones. Making a bad one could really mess you up. And don't be surprised if nobody wants to give you initiation at first. You have to prove to them that you are worthy and they may want to observe you for a while to be sure. It is a great responsibility to accept someone as one's disciple. Genuine gurus do not enter into that relationship lightly. Does anyone know how this story ended? Does he went to India and met his Gurudeva?  |
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 8, 2019 16:45:01 GMT -6
Contact them as soon as you can. Subrata is right there in Atlanta with you, but he will be leaving at the end of the month. Try to get together with him as much as you can. He is a learned and humble Vaisnava who comes from an old and blessed family. Try to get some sanga with him before he goes. As for your trip to India, don't make Sri Sri Gaura and Nitai fish you out of too many tight spots. Make the best plans and arrangements you can from here with your friends on this and other sites and then depend on Thakur if things fail or go wrong (as they always do). Remember who wants to be whose servant. Also, don't be too hasty to take initiation. There are lots of good choices and some bad ones. Making a bad one could really mess you up. And don't be surprised if nobody wants to give you initiation at first. You have to prove to them that you are worthy and they may want to observe you for a while to be sure. It is a great responsibility to accept someone as one's disciple. Genuine gurus do not enter into that relationship lightly. Does anyone know how this story ended? Does he went to India and met his Gurudeva? Sadly, no. He is back in Georgia studying computer programming the last I heard. |
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Post by MR Das on Dec 4, 2019 22:06:55 GMT -6
Jai Gauranga, I have been following the posts between Nitai prabhu and Malati devi, and in general reading here and there to understand the mood of this site, which is mostly sweet and sincere. Having said that there are few areas which I don't understand so well and that could just be down to my lack of background knowledge and or inability to comprehend the underlying passions and concerns of the topics. What I am struggling with most, and I am admitting here that I have a conditioned frame of mind, is what appears to be a lack of respect for some of the Guru's of the Gauydia tradition. We may not agree with them, nor appreciate their styles of service, but some how I feel it would be better not to be rude when discussing them in the forum. After all even Mahatmas make mistakes due to being in human form what to speak of normal people in general. I Know it is hard to forgive and forget, when feelings run deep, and people get hurt from no fault of their own, at the same time it may be better all round to find away to overcome that. Like I have said before I am no expert and I have been a casuality of iskcon my self. I have also had to deal with some simple souls and some highly complexed and evolved soul in processing the wickedness and confusion in the fallout and aftermath, which as we are seeing here goes on for years and maybe even life times if we let it. What has just taken place in the last 500 years regarding the advent of Mahaprabhu is beyond most of our conceptions, at the least a new world religion, in that advent their has been so many components, we don't have the over view as we are still to close to the Divine Advent. There has been a lot of churning and not much stability, it is early days and so many of us have been given a little part to play, and in a some cases a big part to play in bringing stability amist the waves of love of God. They keep on coming, and their is so much diversity with those waves. Of course there has been wrongs do, each will have to own their own,but equally there has to come a time when we have the greatness of spirit to rise above pain and insult. I didn't come here to preach on the contrary I came here to learn, and to some extent I am doing that very nicely, so I am thankful for that. No matter what we beleive or think is right or wrong, if we can find it with in our hearts to be kind and at peace with all others on this path then it will be so much better for us and every one else trying to comprehend this divine loving network of Gauranga Mahaprabhu's causeless mercy. That does not mean that I think we should be sticking our heads in the sand, not that there is much chance of that here, just to give a little credit if that is all we can muster, and try not to be rude even though we feel it justified. |
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Post by MR Das on Dec 4, 2019 22:10:24 GMT -6
Hi Sita, and Radhe Radhe! You are correct about all of that. But Nitai is also correct in his reply. Different points of view. One must pick an affiliation is the bottom line. As the late Manindranath Guha said to me in Vrindavan, one can't for example be an adherent of the Catholic Church while being an adherent of CV. Not really. That would be like trying to stand in 2 different boats at the same time in choppy water and expecting to keep one's balance.
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Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Nov 2, 2020 7:27:30 GMT -6
Radhe Radhe!
Not sure if this is the best place for general questions but...
Can anyone recall or give me the source for the verse/sloka that says something like, "For one who has fallen down, the ground is the support that one uses to get back up."
I believe it is an analogy of some sort and it could just be from a more modern book and not a verse. I just know I read it somewhat recently but now can't find it anywhere. Please let me know if you know where this is from. Thanks!
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Post by madanmohandas on Nov 3, 2020 3:43:34 GMT -6
Can't recall the ref, but if it helps,
bhumau skalita paadaanaam
bhumirevaavalambanam/
tvayi jaataaparaadhaanaam
tvameva saranam hare//
Who steps upon the earth and slips away,
The earth herself is verily his stay;
But whoso, Hari, offends against thee,
Finds grace as thy suppliant refugee.
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