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Post by meeno8 on Jan 21, 2020 18:26:42 GMT -6
SIXTH BRÂHMANA
1. Then Gârgî Vâkaknavî asked. 'Yâgñavalkya,' she said, 'everything here is woven, like warp and woof, in water. What then is that in which water is woven, like warp and woof?'
'In air, O Gârgî,' he replied.
'In what then is air woven, like warp and woof?'
'In the worlds of the sky, O Gârgî, 'he replied.
'In what then are the worlds of the sky woven, like warp and woof?'
'In the worlds of the Gandharvas, O Gârgî,' he replied.
p. 131
'In what then are the worlds of the Gandharvas woven, like warp and woof?'
'In the worlds of Âditya (sun), O Gârgî,' he replied.
'In what then are the worlds of Âditya (sun) woven, like warp and woof?'
'In the worlds of Kandra (moon), O Gârgî,' he replied.
'In what then are the worlds of Kandra (moon) woven, like warp and woof?'
, In the worlds of the Nakshatras (stars), O Gârgî,' he replied.
'In what then are the worlds of the Nakshatras (stars) woven, like warp and woof?'
'In the worlds of the Devas (gods), O Gârgî,' he replied.
'In what then are the worlds of the Devas (gods) woven, like warp and woof?'
'In the worlds of Indra, O Gârgî,' he replied.
'In what then are the worlds of Indra woven, like warp and woof?'
'In the worlds of Pragâpati, O Gârgî,' he replied.
'In what then are the worlds of Pragâpati woven, like warp and woof?'
'In the worlds of Brahman, O Gârgî,' he replied.
'In what then are the worlds of Brahman woven, like warp and woof?'
Yâgñavalkya said: 'O Gârgî, Do not ask too much, lest thy head should fall off. Thou askest too much about a deity about which we are not to ask too much 1. Do not ask too much, O Gârgî.' After that Gargî Vâkaknavî held her peace.
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Post by Ldd on Jan 21, 2020 18:37:10 GMT -6
Nice nice.. woven means what? warp and woof.. Such nice meters..
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Post by Nitaidas on Jan 21, 2020 19:00:53 GMT -6
Nitai, I look forward to learning about Puridas’s post-GM cult days. He sounds like a remarkable man. I’m an ex-disciple of Narayan Maharaja so I would be interested in hearing about his hunting of Puridas. Just as Bhaktivedanta Swami treated you well, I was treated well by Narayan Maharaja. Yet, I can’t help feeling cheated by the charlatan, because I was lied to. He taught what I call Neo-Iskconism. He used to criticise Iskcon preaching methods then does a 180 degree turn and adopts Iskcon’s methods with ex-Iskconites as “leaders” of his Neo-Iskcon. His defence of one of his sexually abusive sanyasis was inexcusable as the sanyasi assaulted another young woman a few years later. I rejected Narayan Maharaja and his Neo-Iskcon cult after that. Learning that Bimala Prasada gave himself sanyas from a picture just confirms that the IGM is full of pretenders as all their sanyasis continue the deception. Their mantras are duds. I felt great putting my IGM books away. I couldn’t throw them into the bin, because they have pictures of Krishna in them. I’ll give them to a IGM fanatic someday. I couldn’t help recalling Malcolm X’s advice to young people about checking out facts for one’s self as you may end up hating people who should be loving and loving people who should be hating. I investigated all those groups that I was told not to look at by the IGM and broadened my study of Indian thought. I have spent the last number of years looking at Shaivism, Tantra, the six darshans, other Vaisnava Sampradayas, and have even looked at atheism. I will never be fooled again. You mention Srivatsa Goswami as a potential guru if you were looking for one. Who else would be worthy for consideration in your opinion? Subalaji, I noticed that there is a whole biography on Puridas in Bengali at the U Chicago Library. I am tempted to order it through interlibrary loan and read it. I am interested in him, too. How did he do it? 54 of the finest editions of the CV canon. Some folks have praised me for standing up so early and pointing out the lack of initiation in IGM, but compared to him I am a wimp. He told a whole gathering of GM sannyasis and bhaktas that they may as well go home and get married, for their sannyasa was phony and their initiations were bunko. Those who were genuinely serious about CV left with him and those who were charlatans remained. What nerve he had! And, as I mentioned, they tried to hunt him down and silence him. I never met Narayana Maharaja. All I know about him is that he was an ex-policeman and that he was among those hunting for Anantavasudeva when he left. I have little doubt that as an ex-policeman Narayana Maharaja would have been brutal had he found him. Puridas did marry and settle in Vrndavana. He lived in a little house on a lane called Chippi Gulli and a secretive, tight-knit group of CV practitioners formed around him until his death many years later. I visited that lane when I lived in Vrndavan, but had no idea which house had been his. Maybe I will be able to fill in more of his story when I get that book. I wish it were true that we can never be fooled again. It is possible. We always have to be on guard. About potential diksa gurus, I am afraid I don't have very up-to-date information. There is a rising star named Chandan Goswami who comes from the Radharamana Goswami community. I have heard good things about him and he comes to the West. There are the sons of Madangopal Goswami, ie. Premagopal and Nityagopal Goswamis. Their great-grandfather was Prangopal Goswami, a giant among Caitanya Vaisnavas. His descendants are not as tall. They both do come to the West, especially to Europe. There is Birchand Goswami of Kolkatta. He is a direct descendant of Nityananda Prabhu. Whether he gives diksa to Westerners I am not sure. It is worth a try. There is my gurudeva's grandson, Navadvipchand Goswami in Navadvip and his friend Bhagavatkisore Goswami also of Navadvip. These last three do not travel to the West. With the exception of the Goswamis from the Radharamana community who are in Gopal Bhatta's lineage, the rest mentioned here are Nityananda paribar. If you are interested in the lineage from Gadadhara Prabhu there are the disciples of Pandita Haridas Sastri. Lalita dasi is one of those and there are certainly others of that august lineage. Keep in mind, one's gurudeva does not need to be siddha in order to transmit empowered mantras or male, for that matter. I have mostly given the names of householders. I am not much in favor of becoming a babaji. It is a hard life if lived authentically. I know, I saw it first hand. It is not for everyone. Of course, Babajis have householder disciples, too. Sadly, all the babas I knew and held in deep respect are no longer with us. My gurubhai Binode Bihari does not give diksa I am told, though he does give Harinama initiations. If any one else has more up-to-date info, please share it. |
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Post by Ldd on Jan 21, 2020 19:05:34 GMT -6
I never thought about the metaphorical tortoise. It's poetic saili ( for aware of the style) and what it pertains to that science has discovered, I don't try to tax my brain too much, but there must be some things.
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Post by Ldd on Jan 21, 2020 19:22:03 GMT -6
Re: mimamsa and Buddhists. When I was a graduate student at University of Chicago in the department of South Asian Languages and Civilization in the early 1980s, I studied one text from the navya-nyaya school with a Sanskrit professor there, but I never read any mimamsa texts. When I was in my senior year at University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC) completing my BA in Philosophy, I took 2 courses in logic. The emphasis in the program at UIC is on philosophy of science, as it should have been in the 20th century (and now in the 21st century). I read Aritotle's book on Physics, and other later Western philosophers such as Locke, Hume and Leibnitz. There is some overlap between Western logic and Indian schools of logic. There is much to clean from the texts in the 6 darshans of India, but that is hardly the be all and end all of knowledge. With the advent of Mahaprabhu, there was a global transformation, which included the flourishing of India under Mughal rule and the Age of Reason and the Enlightenment in Europe. Rule by tyrants and despots has been supplanted to a large degree over the past several centuries by democratic republics, and even the Crown in the UK is now a constitutional monarchy as opposed to the rule of Henry VIII. Special and general relativity and quantum mechanics fall under the category of acintya (inconceivable, except to the brilliant minds that came up with the theories), yet they have been verified over and over again in experiments even though there are all those paradoxes that we have so much difficulty wrapping our minds around it. |
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subala
Junior Member
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Post by subala on Jan 22, 2020 11:53:21 GMT -6
Nitai, I look forward to learning about Puridas’s post-GM cult days. He sounds like a remarkable man. I’m an ex-disciple of Narayan Maharaja so I would be interested in hearing about his hunting of Puridas. Just as Bhaktivedanta Swami treated you well, I was treated well by Narayan Maharaja. Yet, I can’t help feeling cheated by the charlatan, because I was lied to. He taught what I call Neo-Iskconism. He used to criticise Iskcon preaching methods then does a 180 degree turn and adopts Iskcon’s methods with ex-Iskconites as “leaders” of his Neo-Iskcon. His defence of one of his sexually abusive sanyasis was inexcusable as the sanyasi assaulted another young woman a few years later. I rejected Narayan Maharaja and his Neo-Iskcon cult after that. Learning that Bimala Prasada gave himself sanyas from a picture just confirms that the IGM is full of pretenders as all their sanyasis continue the deception. Their mantras are duds. I felt great putting my IGM books away. I couldn’t throw them into the bin, because they have pictures of Krishna in them. I’ll give them to a IGM fanatic someday. I couldn’t help recalling Malcolm X’s advice to young people about checking out facts for one’s self as you may end up hating people who should be loving and loving people who should be hating. I investigated all those groups that I was told not to look at by the IGM and broadened my study of Indian thought. I have spent the last number of years looking at Shaivism, Tantra, the six darshans, other Vaisnava Sampradayas, and have even looked at atheism. I will never be fooled again. You mention Srivatsa Goswami as a potential guru if you were looking for one. Who else would be worthy for consideration in your opinion? Subalaji, I noticed that there is a whole biography on Puridas in Bengali at the U Chicago Library. I am tempted to order it through interlibrary loan and read it. I am interested in him, too. How did he do it? 54 of the finest editions of the CV canon. Some folks have praised me for standing up so early and pointing out the lack of initiation in IGM, but compared to him I am a wimp. He told a whole gathering of GM sannyasis and bhaktas that they may as well go home and get married, for their sannyasa was phony and their initiations were bunko. Those who were genuinely serious about CV left with him and those who were charlatans remained. What nerve he had! And, as I mentioned, they tried to hunt him down and silence him. I never met Narayana Maharaja. All I know about him is that he was an ex-policeman and that he was among those hunting for Anantavasudeva when he left. I have little doubt that as an ex-policeman Narayana Maharaja would have been brutal had he found him. Puridas did marry and settle in Vrndavana. He lived in a little house on a lane called Chippi Gulli and a secretive, tight-knit group of CV practitioners formed around him until his death many years later. I visited that lane when I lived in Vrndavan, but had no idea which house had been his. Maybe I will be able to fill in more of his story when I get that book. I wish it were true that we can never be fooled again. It is possible. We always have to be on guard. About potential diksa gurus, I am afraid I don't have very up-to-date information. There is a rising star named Chandan Goswami who comes from the Radharamana Goswami community. I have heard good things about him and he comes to the West. There are the sons of Madangopal Goswami, ie. Premagopal and Nityagopal Goswamis. Their great-grandfather was Prangopal Goswami, a giant among Caitanya Vaisnavas. His descendants are not as tall. They both do come to the West, especially to Europe. There is Birchand Goswami of Kolkatta. He is a direct descendant of Nityananda Prabhu. Whether he gives diksa to Westerners I am not sure. It is worth a try. There is my gurudeva's grandson, Navadvipchand Goswami in Navadvip and his friend Bhagavatkisore Goswami also of Navadvip. These last three do not travel to the West. With the exception of the Goswamis from the Radharamana community who are in Gopal Bhatta's lineage, the rest mentioned here are Nityananda paribar. If you are interested in the lineage from Gadadhara Prabhu there are the disciples of Pandita Haridas Sastri. Lalita dasi is one of those and there are certainly others of that august lineage. Keep in mind, one's gurudeva does not need to be siddha in order to transmit empowered mantras or male, for that matter. I have mostly given the names of householders. I am not much in favor of becoming a babaji. It is a hard life if lived authentically. I know, I saw it first hand. It is not for everyone. Of course, Babajis have householder disciples, too. Sadly, all the babas I knew and held in deep respect are no longer with us. My gurubhai Binode Bihari does not give diksa I am told, though he does give Harinama initiations. If any one else has more up-to-date info, please share it. Nitaiji, Puridas's biography would be interesting. I admire whistle blowers as they often stand alone against vested interests. Many of them pay the ultimate price with losing their lives. I'm happy that Puridas didn't killed himself as Bhaktivedanta cliams in his purports. He even goes as far as claiming Puridas was gay and feel in love with a prostitude. I wonder how a committed IGMers would respond when the facts of Puridas not taking own life were presented to him or her. I wonder how they would explain away the Bhaktivedanta's lies. If Bhaktivedanta lies about the death of his ex-gurubhai why should anything the charlatan say be taken seriously. I stayed at your gurubhais ashram several years ago. The bhajans they sang in his ashram are the best I've ever experienced. Pure bliss. |
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Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Jan 22, 2020 19:19:47 GMT -6
About potential diksa gurus, I am afraid I don't have very up-to-date information. There is a rising star named Chandan Goswami who comes from the Radharamana Goswami community. I have heard good things about him and he comes to the West. There are the sons of Madangopal Goswami, ie. Premagopal and Nityagopal Goswamis. Their great-grandfather was Prangopal Goswami, a giant among Caitanya Vaisnavas. His descendants are not as tall. They both do come to the West, especially to Europe. There is Birchand Goswami of Kolkatta. He is a direct descendant of Nityananda Prabhu. Whether he gives diksa to Westerners I am not sure. It is worth a try. There is my gurudeva's grandson, Navadvipchand Goswami in Navadvip and his friend Bhagavatkisore Goswami also of Navadvip. These last three do not travel to the West. With the exception of the Goswamis from the Radharamana community who are in Gopal Bhatta's lineage, the rest mentioned here are Nityananda paribar. If you are interested in the lineage from Gadadhara Prabhu there are the disciples of Pandita Haridas Sastri. Lalita dasi is one of those and there are certainly others of that august lineage. Keep in mind, one's gurudeva does not need to be siddha in order to transmit empowered mantras or male, for that matter. I have mostly given the names of householders. I am not much in favor of becoming a babaji. It is a hard life if lived authentically. I know, I saw it first hand. It is not for everyone. Of course, Babajis have householder disciples, too. Sadly, all the babas I knew and held in deep respect are no longer with us. My gurubhai Binode Bihari does not give diksa I am told, though he does give Harinama initiations. If any one else has more up-to-date info, please share it. Radhe Radhe! Here's a little additional info on a couple more Vaishnavas who may possibly give diksa: Like Chandan Goswami, there is another young goswami named Pundarik Goswami. He also has traveled to America and I believe gives diksa. I'm unsure of who his father is, but he is in the line of Radharaman Goswamis. Chandan and Pundarik Goswamis have a presence online, websites, Facebook, YouTube, etc. Also another like Binode Bihari Baba is Pran Krishnadas Baba. I believe he is a godbrother to Madangopal Goswami and is close with the younger Premgopal and Nityagopal Goswamis. Also Premgopal Goswami does have a number of books that can be purchased on Amazon or in Vrindavan. |
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Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Jan 22, 2020 19:36:25 GMT -6
Nitaiji, Puridas's biography would be interesting. I admire whistle blowers as they often stand alone against vested interests. Many of them pay the ultimate price with losing their lives. I'm happy that Puridas didn't killed himself as Bhaktivedanta cliams in his purports. He even goes as far as claiming Puridas was gay and fell in love with a prostitute. I wonder how a committed IGMers would respond when the facts of Puridas not taking own life were presented to him or her. I wonder how they would explain away the Bhaktivedanta's lies. If Bhaktivedanta lies about the death of his ex-gurubhai why should anything the charlatan say be taken seriously. I stayed at your gurubhais ashram several years ago. The bhajans they sang in his ashram are the best I've ever experienced. Pure bliss. What do you think of the idea that perhaps "Ananta Vasudev killed himself" was an idea created to protect him? Perhaps he died when he was reborn as Puridas through bona fide diksa?  And because he takes on the name Puridas, the GM rogues discontinue their search? Just a thought. Bhaktivedanta doesn't seem like he would have dug around for correct info, but just accepted the societal buzz about Ananta Vasudev, which was convenient to maintain faith in Siddhanta Saraswati. Of course, I doubt that those those who were there when Ananta Vasudev denounced the validity of the Gaudiya Math's diksa, those who decided to stay in the Gaudiya Math, cutting out their own piece of the pie, I highly doubt they would have retold what Ananta Vasudev said. Better to bury him with his truth. Your thoughts? |
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Post by Nitaidas on Jan 22, 2020 23:16:11 GMT -6
Nitaiji, Puridas's biography would be interesting. I admire whistle blowers as they often stand alone against vested interests. Many of them pay the ultimate price with losing their lives. I'm happy that Puridas didn't killed himself as Bhaktivedanta cliams in his purports. He even goes as far as claiming Puridas was gay and fell in love with a prostitute. I wonder how a committed IGMers would respond when the facts of Puridas not taking own life were presented to him or her. I wonder how they would explain away the Bhaktivedanta's lies. If Bhaktivedanta lies about the death of his ex-gurubhai why should anything the charlatan say be taken seriously. I stayed at your gurubhais ashram several years ago. The bhajans they sang in his ashram are the best I've ever experienced. Pure bliss. What do you think of the idea that perhaps "Ananta Vasudev killed himself" was an idea created to protect him? Perhaps he died when he was reborn as Puridas through bona fide diksa? And because he takes on the name Puridas, the GM rogues discontinue their search? Just a thought. Bhaktivedanta doesn't seem like he would have dug around for correct info, but just accepted the societal buzz about Ananta Vasudev, which was convenient to maintain faith in Siddhanta Saraswati. Of course, I doubt that those those who were there when Ananta Vasudev denounced the validity of the Gaudiya Math's diksa, those who decided to stay in the Gaudiya Math, cutting out their own piece of the pie, I highly doubt they would have retold what Ananta Vasudev said. Better to bury him with his truth. Your thoughts? Well, I suppose it is possible, but who created the story? Who wanted to protect Puridas? Bhaktivedanta? The GM vultures who swept in to replace him? The Radharamana Goswamis? I suspect that if Bhaktivedanta did not lie about Ananta Vasudeva's death, it was because someone else told him that and he believed it. So perhaps he did not lie. I have remembered one interesting detail. I mentioned Ananta Das Babaji the mahanta of Govinda Kunda with whom I spoke before my departure from ISKCON. He was Puridas's nephew. I have often lamented the fact that I never met with Visnudas Baba who was for a while the mahanta at Bhagavat-nivas in Vrndavana. I was there in Vraja when he was, but I never met him. Visnudas Babaji was there as a young boy, a student of Pandit Ramkrishna Das Baba, when Bhaktisiddhanta admitted to Panditji that he did not get initiation from Gaurakisor das Babaji except in dream. Initiation by dream is not real initiation in CV. I would have loved to have heard the story directly from Visnudas Baba. Still, I did meet Puridas's nephew who confirmed his uncle's claim that BS never received mantra diksa and gave himself sannyasa. |
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Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Jan 22, 2020 23:24:55 GMT -6
Well, I suppose it is possible, but who created the story? Who wanted to protect Puridas? Bhaktivedanta? The GM vultures who swept in to replace him? The Radharamana Goswamis? I suspect that if Bhaktivedanta did not lie about Ananta Vasudeva's death, it was because someone else told him that and he believed it. So perhaps he did not lie. This is speculation on my part, I admit, but what I meant was that it has already been mentioned that those who disagreed with Ananta Vasudev wanted to kill him after he declared that diksa from Siddhanta Saraswati was bunk. So they wouldn't want to hide him, they wanted him dead. Thus we know that he went into hiding to save his skin. It makes sense that those hiding him, in collaboration with himself (Puridas), fabricated the suicide story to throw the hunters off the trail. There's no one to hunt for if he's dead, right? And at some point he became Puridas and seemed to keep somewhat of a low profile while he did great seva for the CV tradition by publishing all the volumes of Gaudiya sastras previously mentioned. Maybe that's a better explanation of my idea |
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Post by Ramdas on Jan 23, 2020 8:35:34 GMT -6
Over a decade ago I was an instructor for a course in Vedic Astrology at a local yoga studio. The owner of the studio invited me to attend a concert by Deva Premal at a local church. It was a relatively small audience, but was mainly packed with other yoga instructors and yoga students in addition to just Deva fans that were there. She concluded the concert leading a group kirton of the maha-mantra, and the audience was very enthusiastic in chanting. The point is that there are far larger numbers of people attending yoga classes in America than those going to services at IGM centers. The question is how many yoga students have been indoctrinated with IGM apasiddhanta and to what degree.
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Post by Ldd on Jan 23, 2020 12:52:51 GMT -6
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Post by meeno8 on Jan 23, 2020 16:23:17 GMT -6
I started reading through all those posts. What a waste of time that was! I ran across a kirton video on youtube at his ashram a few months ago. I was not all that curious to know any details about the man. The kirton was okay, but there are much better youtube videos of kirton.
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Post by meeno8 on Jan 23, 2020 20:13:41 GMT -6
When Nila started this thread, I assumed he was talking about reaching out to those that have not been indoctrinated with apasiddhanta, as well as those who already left IGM, or at least are considering it for some better alternative. If one is lucky to be in living in CV society that is one thing, but for the rest of us, then we have our personal sadhana to attend to. Sat-sanga is clearly beneficial, and for most it is very necessary in the beginning. One needs to get past that stage at some point though, unless they are in a position to surround themselves with like minded CV adherents.
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Post by Ldd on Jan 23, 2020 20:41:57 GMT -6
When Nila started this thread, I assumed he was talking about reaching out to those that have not been indoctrinated with apasiddhanta, as well as those who already left IGM, or at least are considering it for some better alternative. If one is lucky to be in living in CV society that is one thing, but for the rest of us, then we have our personal sadhana to attend to. Sat-sanga is clearly beneficial, and for most it is very necessary in the beginning. One needs to get past that stage at some point though, unless they are in a position to surround themselves with like minded CV adherents. I think Krishn start to reciprocate very fast when you do bhajan alone. First he starts clearing out bad association. which is about 99 percent of people coming around. then he sends you to the right spot. Faith is the main key. Its not that we left the big groups. It's Krishn who removed them from our way |
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And because he takes on the name Puridas, the GM rogues discontinue their search? Just a thought. Bhaktivedanta doesn't seem like he would have dug around for correct info, but just accepted the societal buzz about Ananta Vasudev, which was convenient to maintain faith in Siddhanta Saraswati. Of course, I doubt that those those who were there when Ananta Vasudev denounced the validity of the Gaudiya Math's diksa, those who decided to stay in the Gaudiya Math, cutting out their own piece of the pie, I highly doubt they would have retold what Ananta Vasudev said. Better to bury him with his truth. Your thoughts?