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Post by adrs on Jan 2, 2020 9:30:52 GMT -6
Krishna extols the virtue of satsanga. But it must a certain quality that helps one ascend toward Krishna. He says nothing gains me as satsanga. which puts an end to all attachments "Thanks to the fellowship of saints, daityas, Yatudhanas, beasts, birds, gandharvas, apsara, naga, siddha, charana, guyhaka, vidyadhara, and humans :vaishya, sudra, women, lowborn. Those possesed of raja and tama, like Vrtasura, Praharada (son of Kayadhu) Vrsaparva,Bali, Bana, Maya, Bibhishana, Sugriva, Hanuman, Jambhavan, Jatayu, Tuladhara,( etc etc... a long list) have ascended to my realm in different yugas."
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Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Jan 3, 2020 9:55:18 GMT -6
Eg. Pejawar swami did not know that Radhanath landed in India to hideaway from a crime, nor about the initiation problem, and he thinks Radhanath is like a brother saint /swami, and like this they are convincing all the big leaders and public. Just a note for reference, I was talking with Birchand Goswami about IGM and how there is no proper diksa line. I explained the history of Siddhanta Saraswati and how he never received diksa and made up the 'siksa parampara'. I was surprised when Birchand Goswami said, "I'm not aware of this fact." So he didn't know that IGM has it's own invented parampara. There's all kinds of shams going on out there. Not everyone is aware, clearly. It's a shame that people think so highly of Radhanath. It's really sad. But then again, people admire all kinds of IGM high provile (new word I invented  ) guys like Dhanurdhar, Jayapatak, Paramadvaiti, Tripurari, etc. I guess it's not that surprising. Hitler got quite a following too. It's amazing how people will gravitate towards charisma and a bigger group, as if numbers mean anything. Might just be a lot of sheeple following one another in circles or into a ditch. I've often wondered why it is that people will go with sentiment over facts. I know that Dhanurdhar will have prospective disciples read about his court case having to do with his physical abuse of children in the Vrindavan gurukula before he initiates them. These 'disciples' read it and sign right up for initiation. What's wrong with this picture?? |
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Post by meeno8 on Jan 3, 2020 21:22:59 GMT -6
These are important points for distinguishing charlatans from genuine CV adherents. On the other hand, why should we spend valuable time focusing on those types of things, when we should be spending it on other activities? I see no need to bother myself with what others are doing. Other religions, such as IGM, are of no concern to me. I had a good time involved with that sect for a few brief years, but now I hold no animosity towards it or its adherents, because what would be the point of that?
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Post by Nitaidas on Jan 4, 2020 11:31:43 GMT -6
These are important points for distinguishing charlatans from genuine CV adherents. On the other hand, why should we spend valuable time focusing on those types of things, when we should be spending it on other activities? I see no need to bother myself with what others are doing. Other religions, such as IGM, are of no concern to me. I had a good time involved with that sect for a few brief years, but now I hold no animosity towards it or its adherents, because what would be the point of that? Mina is certainly right here. We should not waste our time thinking about IGM. We have better things to do with our rapidly vanishing time in these incarnations. Still, for those of us who have come out of IGM, it is a great struggle to unlearn all of the misinformation and wrong teachings IGM planted in our brains during our time with them. For that purpose I am posting links to two documents recently created by the good folks at Jiva Institute highlighting the initiation irregularity and wrong siddhanta promoted by the IGM magisterium. Even today, forty-five years after leaving ISKCON I still find misunderstandings hiding in the dusty corners of my mind that were placed there by Bhaktivedanta and other Bhakti-whats-its when I was young and impressionable. Every assumption from that period must be questioned. Perhaps these documents which were compiled from earlier essays and articles in response to a recent challenge by IGM concerning the initiation claim will help with that. Satyanarayana Dasji and Malati Dasi and others have compiled the documents in response to the latest bullying attempts by IGM to blacken eyes and bloody noses in a effort to hide their mendacity and make themselves appear authentic. The essay on initiation is here.The essay on wrong siddhanta is here.Hope you find them useful in your efforts to exorcise the ghosts of our pasts and see CV as it is. There may be more recent versions of these documents at the Jiva Institute site. |
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Post by meeno8 on Jan 4, 2020 12:11:49 GMT -6
And we had to as recovering Catholics (not so much for me as for others) come out from the indoctrination of the church.
That one link covers varnashram. Not for us.
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Post by adrs on Jan 6, 2020 8:37:31 GMT -6
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Post by adrs on Jan 6, 2020 8:52:20 GMT -6
My guruji said that Prem mandir was sex mandir. And what do you know? His own disciple is promoting it. Yes everyone is captured by the opulence. Kripalu was a strong man. My sister saw him running around like a athlete in a mall ( where she had a business at the time) When he got arrested that weekend, he told the judge he was sick and was put in wheelchair |
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Post by adrs on Jan 6, 2020 16:04:53 GMT -6
after that bout of maliciousness, its time to consider that disciples who spread Krishna conciousness under Prabhupad - the curtain is beginning to drop on them. Everything that has a beginning also ends. I wish them well that they progress toward Krishna, for if they had tried sincerely, Krishna will take them forth in the next life.
A recent death was Jagad Guru das ( Nrsinghna swami ) who had an ashram in Mysore. He was a strong defender of Iskcon/ Gaudiya math parampara. Everyone probably knows. He died of cancer this week. I might be unconsciously trying to remind people about our own mortality.
Mahanidhi Swami is quite ill, I've heard. In recent years he became initiated by a babaji guru, and has stayed steadfastly in Radhakund practicing (without getting involved in nonsense) I think highly of him.
Indian longevity is lower than Westerners generally. Except for babas who usually live up to one hundred plus, thanks to the power of Krishna. I'm not sure about a foreigner baba. I hope he recovers and lives long.
I offer my appreciation to all who tried their sincere best according to the situation presented, but did not make the grade. May they do better in the next..
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Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Jan 10, 2020 8:00:18 GMT -6
The essay on initiation is here.The essay on wrong siddhanta is here.Hope you find them useful in your efforts to exorcise the ghosts of our pasts and see CV as it is. There may be more recent versions of these documents at the Jiva Institute site. These are fantastic essays Nitai Dasji! Thanks so much for posting them!! Did you pull them from the Jiva site recently?? Because I can't find them on there anywhere. Where did you find them? I did find countless things that Babaji wants to sell on the Jiva site. I understand selling books, but all the lectures too?! Oh well, I guess he's running a business like most with their own institutions. Clearly I have mixed feelings about 'sadhus' seemingly charging for things that in my opinion shouldn't be charged for. These days with 'bhakti' becoming popular among the yoga crowd, it does make me a little sick at all these things being charged for. "Come to my kirtan! Only $30!!" "Come do some service on my farm. Only $200!" "Come to my class. $108! (half off the normal price! It's a steal!!)" Etc. ad nausea. It's subjective and relative I suppose. And I have similar feelings about the self-advertising too. Then again, who's to say who is doing the advertising? Is it ok if it's the students advertising their guru?! Anyway, I see this discussion going off the deep end here. Let's see what happens... Jai Sri Radhe! |
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Post by Ldd on Jan 10, 2020 9:11:59 GMT -6
Nila. Nitai did the original research and essays on initiation. It was Nitai who first came to realize the scenario after spending years in Iskcon in the seventies before people came along later on and recreated the essays. In collecting proof, if one does not have shabda (reliable testimony) it's fine to use the other six forms of praman ( a structed form of judgement) to reach the truth about it. If you write a thesis, it will stand truth unless something more reliable comes along. You can get the fine details here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pramana |
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Post by Nitaidas on Jan 10, 2020 17:35:06 GMT -6
These are fantastic essays Nitai Dasji! Thanks so much for posting them!! Did you pull them from the Jiva site recently?? Because I can't find them on there anywhere. Where did you find them? I did find countless things that Babaji wants to sell on the Jiva site. I understand selling books, but all the lectures too?! Oh well, I guess he's running a business like most with their own institutions. Clearly I have mixed feelings about 'sadhus' seemingly charging for things that in my opinion shouldn't be charged for. These days with 'bhakti' becoming popular among the yoga crowd, it does make me a little sick at all these things being charged for. "Come to my kirtan! Only $30!!" "Come do some service on my farm. Only $200!" "Come to my class. $108! (half off the normal price! It's a steal!!)" Etc. ad nausea. It's subjective and relative I suppose. And I have similar feelings about the self-advertising too. Then again, who's to say who is doing the advertising? Is it ok if it's the students advertising their guru?! Anyway, I see this discussion going off the deep end here. Let's see what happens... Jai Sri Radhe! Nilamadhava dasji. Those articles were given to me by Malati Dasi who now lives and works at the Jiva Institute. Here is what she said in an email about a month ago: It has been a long time that we have been in contact. I am now fully engaged in my seva for Babaji Satyanarayana Das and Jiva Institute and manage the website jiva.org. At present we have a Q & A on re-initiation and many IGM people became upset. I remember that I have read somewhere that Bhaktisiddhanta reinitiated a disciple of Bipin Bihari. It would be very helpful to have that reference, so I was wondering whether you know about that.
Also, I tried to download some of your articles on BVT and parampara issue but was not successful. Are you Nitai zine journals still online? They were real eye-openers. I sent her back some suggestions and some of the old essays I wrote. They are still on the old Bhajan-kutir site I used to use. This was her response: Radhe Radhe! Happy to hear from you as well. I found an good essay about Bhaktivinoda Thakur and Bipin Bihari in my archives and Babaij also found it interesting, but it had no author's name. Upon research in the internet I found that you are the author, great!
Advaitaji is regularly updating the MISKCONCEPTION files. I have also made a few small contributions to it. Here is the latest update, if you interested, and another file that one of my godbrothers had compiled.
I have your old Nitaizine's from previously (3 of them were particularly interesting for me at that time), but also checked the link you sent and it gave the following message:
The page you were on is trying to send you to an invalid URL www.bhajankutir.net(,).She attached those two essays with the last email and I shared them with the members of this symposium. Does anyone else have trouble getting to the Bhajan Kutir site? It comes right up for me. |
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Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Jan 10, 2020 17:45:56 GMT -6
Nilamadhava dasji. Those articles were given to me by Malati Dasi who now lives and works at the Jiva Institute. Here is what she said in an email about a month ago: It has been a long time that we have been in contact. I am now fully engaged in my seva for Babaji Satyanarayana Das and Jiva Institute and manage the website jiva.org. At present we have a Q & A on re-initiation and many IGM people became upset. I remember that I have read somewhere that Bhaktisiddhanta reinitiated a disciple of Bipin Bihari. It would be very helpful to have that reference, so I was wondering whether you know about that.
Also, I tried to download some of your articles on BVT and parampara issue but was not successful. Are you Nitai zine journals still online? They were real eye-openers. I sent her back some suggestions and some of the old essays I wrote. They are still on the old Bhajan-kutir site I used to use. This was her response: Radhe Radhe! Happy to hear from you as well. I found an good essay about Bhaktivinoda Thakur and Bipin Bihari in my archives and Babaij also found it interesting, but it had no author's name. Upon research in the internet I found that you are the author, great!
Advaitaji is regularly updating the MISKCONCEPTION files. I have also made a few small contributions to it. Here is the latest update, if you interested, and another file that one of my godbrothers had compiled.
I have your old Nitaizine's from previously (3 of them were particularly interesting for me at that time), but also checked the link you sent and it gave the following message:
The page you were on is trying to send you to an invalid URL (http://www.bhajankutir.net,).She attached those two essays with the last email and I shared them with the members of this symposium. Does anyone else have trouble getting to the Bhajan Kutir site? It comes right up for me. Thanks for the info Baba! For everyone's info, here is the link that works for the Bhajan Kutir site: www.bhajankutir.net/opening.htmlI also have all of the Nitai Zines if you need the issues that are not linked on your archives page of that site. Also, I just noticed that on the 'Sadhanas' page you wrote, "Coming soon: Sanatana's combination of nama-kirtana and smarana." Can you provide any more info on that? Is it a specific book? And you have also linked a book/article by Hridayanandadas Baba called Nama Yajna Rahasya. Can you tell more about that book as only the introduction is there. Is it a large book? Do you think I could find it in India? And if so, where? Many thanks! Jai Sri Radhe!!! |
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Post by Nitaidas on Jan 10, 2020 18:54:02 GMT -6
Thanks for the info Baba! For everyone's info, here is the link that works for the Bhajan Kutir site: www.bhajankutir.net/opening.htmlI also have all of the Nitai Zines if you need the issues that are not linked on your archives page of that site. Also, I just noticed that on the 'Sadhanas' page you wrote, "Coming soon: Sanatana's combination of nama-kirtana and smarana." Can you provide any more info on that? Is it a specific book? And you have also linked a book/article by Hridayanandadas Baba called Nama Yajna Rahasya. Can you tell more about that book as only the introduction is there. Is it a large book? Do you think I could find it in India? And if so, where? Many thanks! Jai Sri Radhe!!! I meant the Sri Krsna-lila-stava by Sanatana Goswami which is part nama-kirtana and part smarana. You probably already have it, but if not you can find it here.Hridayananda Baba was the gurudev of Visakha Dasi and Sakhicarana Dasji. He was a disciple of Ramdas Baba of the Nitai-Gaur Radhe Shyam tradition. His book Nama-yajna-rahasya covers much of the same ground as Sundarananda's book Mahamantra, arguing for the counting of the Mahamantra or rather its use in japa, but not uncounted kirtana. I just did the introduction to that book, but it deserves a full treatment. Hridayananda Das Baba also wrote the Sucaka for Tinkudi Baba that is in the appendix in Sadhu Sadhu, Binode Baba's hagiography of Tinkudi Baba. I added it. It is not in Binode Baba's original. Hridayananda Baba was very fond of my Baba and my Baba was fond of him. |
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Post by Ldd on Jan 11, 2020 7:03:00 GMT -6
In the age of aggresive advertising by various groups the best way to know whats going on is Nyaya. Don't accept whats presented at eye level. I always used it - and found myself on the safe path. The courts use it. It's employed by science and research. Chaitanya devotees need to use it more than ever to keep their heads facing forward. The first step is healthy scepticism which is actually paramatma lending a helping hand Nyāya (Sanskrit: न्याय, nyā-yá), literally means "rules", "method" or "judgment". It is also the name of one of the six orthodox (astika) schools of Hinduism. This school's most significant contributions to Indian philosophy was systematic development of the theory of logic, methodology, and its treatises on epistemology. OK That's the last bit on that. |
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Post by meeno8 on Jan 11, 2020 16:10:14 GMT -6
Nothing like a good exorcism for the mind.
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) guys like Dhanurdhar, Jayapatak, Paramadvaiti, Tripurari, etc. I guess it's not that surprising. Hitler got quite a following too. It's amazing how people will gravitate towards charisma and a bigger group, as if numbers mean anything. Might just be a lot of sheeple following one another in circles or into a ditch. I've often wondered why it is that people will go with sentiment over facts. I know that Dhanurdhar will have prospective disciples read about his court case having to do with his physical abuse of children in the Vrindavan gurukula before he initiates them. These 'disciples' read it and sign right up for initiation. What's wrong with this picture?? 
