Stealing Radha and Krsna and Mahaprabhu away from India

[Nitaidas]

Jan 27, 2020 21:33:47 GMT -6 meeno8 said:

Caitanyaism for us Westerners has absolutely nothing to do with varnashram and brahmin caste. We were not born into that system, so it is irrelevant. We are outcastes according to that system. For those born into that system, that is their own affair, just as US citizenship for people born in the USA is our own affair. If one is baptized as a Christian, then they have to remain a baptized Christian, even if becoming also a Caitanyite. Since baptism is basically a samskara, then it is not like it can be reversed somehow. It is a right of passage, just like mantra diksha or marriage.

Truth to power may seem like some fantastic platitude, but I think we have to be practical. There is little point in storming the ramparts of the IGM institution with siege engines and catapults. Some will continue to stay behind its walls and moats full of alligators, because they find safety in that from the world of 'karmis', and others will find their way out somehow. I don't see critical thinking as some act of bravery, quite frankly. And that is really all that is required to reject apasiddhanta and leave any institution that fosters it. Nitai led the rest of us out of IGM with the torch of knowledge either directly or indirectly, however, so we are indebted to him for that and not being shy about sharing his findings.

Thanks for your kind words Minaketan dasji. The truth is that I was pulled out of ignorance, at least ignorance of the true history of IGM, by Dr Kapoor. When I was head pujari at the Krsna-Balaram Temple I used to go visit him at his Radharamana Temple apartment while everyone else in the K-B temple took their siestas. One afternoon out of the blue he told me the story of Bhaktisiddhanta and his fake initiation by Gaurakisora Das Babaji. It blew my mind. I was in shock for weeks. I came back day after day and asked him question after question. He told me the story of Ananta Vasudeva and his last address to the assembled sannyasis and bhaktas of the GM in Delhi in which he told them all that they may as well all go home and get married because they are all leading lives of lies. He told me of Ananta Vasudeva's escape and hiding out in Vrndavan and his eventual reappearance as Puridas Mahasaya and his leadership of the mysterious Chippi Galli group. Nilamadhava dasji suggested that the rumors of his suicide were spread by his well-wishers to protect him. This may well have been the case. Later Srivatsa Goswami filled in the story by telling of how his father took Puridas in and protected him. Dr Kapoor also told me about his own discovery of his true guru in the person of Sri Gauranga Das Babaji whose ashrama is just a few doors down from the Krsna-Balarama Temple. He and his wife were re-initiated, or perhaps more truthfully initiated for the first time, by Gauranga Das Babaji. I asked Kapoor if he would initiate me into the tradition, but he declined. Instead, he sent me to Tinkudi Baba who in his view was the leading siddha baba in Vraja at the time. That is how I eventually found my way out of ISKCON. Kapoor's advice to me was to get genuine diksa from one of the authentic lines and stay in ISKCON. Some day I would become an initiator in ISKCON and I would have the real empowered mantras to pass on. He felt that was the best way to drag ISKCON out of the ditch and on to the authentic path of Mahaprabhu. It took a lot of courage for Kapoor to pull me aside and tell me all of this. He was a friend of Bhaktivedanta's and could have suffered tremendously from his ire and the craziness of BV's disciples. Anyway, it was the grace of Mahaprabhu and especially, I think, of Nityananda Prabhu. As pujari I felt specially close to Balarama at the Krsna-Balarama Temple. I even named my daughter Jahnavi.

Well, these are all things you have all probably heard before. I suppose it does not hurt to repeat them.

No one has taken up my challenge concerning the identity of Radhika and her name. Kanupriya Goswami seems to suggest that sakti-tattva do not have the quality of being identical with their names (in his Nama-cintamani). That is a trait that is only true of saktimat-tattva. But, if saktimat and sakti are themselves non-different, then should not sakti-tattva also not be non-different for their names? What is the siddhanta here?

[Ldd]

I think only Krishna has come as Name. As in Hare Krishna Maha mantra - Name incarnation
Not the other shaktis, who are different from names.
Guessing here - Radha embodies the purest love. Saying her name gives pleasure to Him. But if she is half of his Shakti (born from His body) Equal in all respects... ??
Will end speculation here. Not even Brahma knows.

[Ldd]

Kapoor was a keen admirer of Prabhupada. He is one of the contributors who was interviewed for a book of homages in his last days.
And used to hang around to get Prabhupada's association.
If he knew about the invented parampara I'm sure Prabhupad knew too, but because the man became a success in the West, I guess he became uncorrectable (by his Indian peers)
While we dont care too much, in India people are very impressed with material progress and the presence of Americans etc etc, within a spiritual movement.
I feel that's why the country has become spiritually doomed. Too much ado about external financial success
Kapoor was a great educator. But should have written about the things he told you. As a writer, a duty was there.

[Ldd]

Had people opened up their mouths and spoken, nothing would have happened to anyone. No one would have been killed them. It's due to the cry cry baby frighten mentality that important data was repressed, ( "if I speak out I'll get killed")

No one harmed Lalita Prasad ji who revealed the deception to people like Steve Bohlert and others, bravely. Steve is alive and kicking still.

Prabhupada did not issue a fatwa for Lalita- Prasad-ji. And would not have allowed any harm to go his way. He simply said, "LP has been saying bad things about my guru Maharaj and you should not go and see him." Prior to that both were on friendly terms

Scaredy tender little babies who ended up dying anyway, did not want to lose Prabhupada's friendship and kept hush hush. (fearing they would be ostracised by him and lose out.)

No one remembers the protection of Krishna when coming face to face with a tiny bit of danger.


om.tat.sat.

[Ldd]

A chamar shivers with fear when he hears a small noise. That does not help bhakti.

[Ramdas]

Jagannath Das and I visited Dr. Kapoor a couple times in 1980, and he introduced Jagannath to a guru from (if memory serves) Kapoor's lineage (that of Bado Baba). However, Jagannath was more interested in getting diksha from Krishna Charan Baba (and we were staying at his ashram at 42 Keshi Ghat ashram in Vrindavan, along with the late Pandit Ananta Das Babaji), which he did. Our conversations were brief, so I can't say I knew him well. I disagree that it was his 'duty' to write about IGM. When I was secretary to Akshayananda Swami at Krishna Balaram mandir in 1976, there were many visitors that were not part of ISKCON. A frequent one was the late Madrasi Krishnadas Babaji of Radhakund. It was not like there were some turf wars going on between ISKCON and other Caitanyaites in India, as with Mormon prophets in the USA, and the only animosity towards other groups was that endemic to ISKCON due to various propaganda.

[Ramdas]

Also: When we were with our Baba at Puri in the winter of 1982 at Haridas Math, there was a sannyasi from the Gaudiya Math nearby that was friendly and came by frequently to pay his respects to Baba and have discussions in Bengali with the other babajis there. He was very respectful and friendly towards me personally.

[Ldd]

These sadhus were curious to see foreigners trekking in...and thought well this kind of preaching is bringing results.

OTOH. Sri Ram Krishna das Pandit Baba, may he be pleased, (whose name assures success) did not think so. He came out like a man and told them they should not take disciples without being initiated themselves, and bolted their tails out of his ashram.

[Ldd]

The reason why spiritual standards have dropped to the lowest, in India - when a sadhu gets rich and famous, no one cares if he is feeding the devil or vice versa, He will be adored higher than Krishna for it.

[Ldd]

Not all the Yogi's and Baba's are corrupt for sure. The good ones do not get glossy eyes over material success and know what's going on. But probably have no one to share with.
Why, every parent want their child to go to IIT or become a doctor and go to earn in Merica. Ever since the British built colleges in Calcutta in 1835 the dark age of material ambition has gripped the population.
Which was not the case before. Obviously.
When they do arrive in Merica nowadays they need to get help from iskcon to secure green cards, hence the heavy attendance of Indians at the faux bhakti institution. Lot of Seva and money pouring in for a simple reason.
I think stealing Radha and Krishna to the west is a nice thought. But it requires brain bleaching to remove old damage among those who are doing the worst crime, helping iskcon look like the real thing, when in truth is they are a big convenience store
Their asses need to be chastised and re-educated.

[Ldd]

Religious worker green card scam need be reported and stopped. Hindu temples here do sponsor brahmin priests who are trained. That is totally ok.
The others are sponsoring people that include low grade chamar (not permitted for vedic mantra) and fake diploma criminals, to enlarge membership. The beguilement of maya turns heavier for the poor public when a brown body (of this origin) put dhoti tilak, beat drum and chant Hari Naam.
Best they marry within the local society, and live normally to get green card, eat beef, pork everything the honest way.
All categories of cheaters must be punished. Bhaktivinode used to imprison people in order to bring order.

[Ramdas]

Most people are currently absorbed in staring at apps on their smart phones for a significant percentage of their daily waking hours, even when most of the time they really should be paying more attention to what is going on around them. So, what does that mean for the future? They'll just have a darshan app on their phones instead of getting over to any temple? The gurus will just provide diskha apps to transmit mantras? Prasad from any temple will just be delivered by drone via Amazon? Perhaps all of that will be better anyways than the current status quo, except for the texting while driving bad behavior. Only time will tell.

[Ldd]

But the power of God is higher than apps and smart phones.
A Chinese guy who is Christian said the Corona virus is karma. That the people are soul-less. They know nothing else but work. Or care for nothing else, but work and family. Time will tell where the future will lead But we have to keep spiritual things intact. It will preserve even after we die many lives just by it's nature.

[Ramdas]

Just don't underestimate the power of smart phones to literally hypnotize people with the subtle rewards. They are designed by people who understand the workings of the human brain.

Viruses are always on the verge of becoming pandemics, and that gets worse with each passing decade with the proliferation of people traveling by air all around the globe. In the case of China it is their so-called wet markets causing transmission from animals into humans. Karma has nothing to do with it, to put it bluntly. But you are free to believe whatever you want, despite established facts.

The human species is now one of the most endangered species on the planet, and that is due to human activities that are destroying entire ecosystems and causing carbon emissions to spike more than they have in the past 3.5 millions years just in the past 5 decades. If you think there will be some Vishnu-avatara to bail us out on this before it all collapses, then I hope you're right, at least for the sake of future generations.

Enough said. These sorts of topics are just a distraction anyways, so it is pointless to belabor them with endless posts, and besides practically nobody is reading posts here these days.

[Ldd]

You can't do away with smart phones now. Ten Yrs ago ok. Jobs, insurance companies all need you to have it. And thus no on pays attention to things that matter to the soul.
There will be very few lucky souls who will escape smart phones addiction. Similar to the precious few that come into bhakti. Smart phones will create its own share of mental and physical challenges. Cancer etc I've heard.
People are suffering in the ocean of samsara, this is what the Kali-yug session look likes, fast and furious.

Even those attempting the spiritual path fall through if they are not disciplined. It's an ocean that looks like a deceptive mirror. I type all this from the usefull smart phone. I don't use mine for distraction.

If people don't read here no prob. No one is buying newspapers too. They read what the need online..Good things are very scarce now. We have a bad crop of people in circulation. They go for superficial instant grat. But it's our duty to be hopeful.