saranagati and tension with modern world view

[vkaul1]

I have already ordered Habberman's translation of Nectar of Devotion. However, I just had one question Nitai ji.
Six items of surrender are mentioned in Chapter 39 and among them is complete confidence that Krsna will protect/maintain oneself. I find it contradictory to the last two verse of sikshastakam and the modern world view where we perform devotion to Krsna in spite of uncertainty (how can we know he exists 100% without experiencing him?) about his reciprocation or protection etc? It seems like having confidence in Krsna's protection/maintenance is also a kind of demand or expectation that runs contrary to love.

[Nitaidas]

Sept 13, 2011 23:27:35 GMT -6 vkaul1 said:

I have already ordered Habberman's translation of Nectar of Devotion. However, I just had one question Nitai ji.
Six items of surrender are mentioned in Chapter 39 and among them is complete confidence that Krsna will protect/maintain oneself. I find it contradictory to the last two verse of sikshastakam and the modern world view where we perform devotion to Krsna in spite of uncertainty (how can we know he exists 100% without experiencing him?) about his reciprocation or protection etc? It seems like having confidence in Krsna's protection/maintenance is also a kind of demand or expectation that runs contrary to love.

Good! It is a good work by my old friend from the U of C. 39th chapter of what? Sri Jiva defines faith as confidence in the meanings of scripture and recognizes its mysterious roots. I have been writing about that in the reworked introduction to our new paperback edition of Dr. Kapoor's book Experiences in Bhakti. As far as this confidence in Krsna's protection goes, I think it is exemplified in the last two verses of the siksastaka. One gives up trying to fend for oneself or place any expectations on Krsna and accepts whatever treatment Krsna wants to give one. We don't come to the tradition with this kind of confidence. When bhakti is infused in us, such confidence arises too. It is one of the effects bhakti has on our way of thinking. So don't worry about not having it now. When bhakti arrives it will too.

[vkaul1]

NOD Chapter 39, there is a mention of six items of surrender.
The last two verses of sikstakam impel a devotee to accept whatever treatment Krsna wants to give one. However, does it not mean that you are not confident that Krsna will protect you? I thought it means you love him, whether he protects you or not. Maybe, this is seen as an advanced state and in the preliminary state you should be confident that Krsna will protect you. It was easier to do so in traditional, comfortable world of 16th century where the traditional views were not sufficiently challenged. Therefore, you could believe straight away with complete confidence in Krsna in India or Jesus in the west because majority of people believed in the historicity of the events.

You must have heard about Pascal and his wager Nitai ji. Facing the immensity of the universe, Pascal felt horror – “The eternal silence of these infinite spaces terrifies me.” Like this video by Carl Sagan www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lm6pEhykhs, earth is just too insignificant a portion in the universe. When we look at most ancient traditions, universe is much more comforting, small (100,000 yojanas long) where even a small event in one corner of earth (like Kamsa’s cruelties in a small tract of land in Mathura) are powerful enough to get the attention of cosmic deities who cannot handle him and have to plead to Visnu to come down. So the universe was much more comfortable, small and connected where events on earth(especially in small portions of India or Middle east for the Abrahmic tradition) were really important to the cosmic deities or the God of the bible. In fact all major theistic traditions in India have teachers who are manifestations of cosmic deities and other figures (like Prahlada etc). This gives a comforting picture of the universe where a personal God attends to everything on the earth with every living being. The modern picture of the universe, which is grander but colder, makes it harder for people to accommodate the anthropomorphic conception of personal God in most traditions. Therefore, that is a challenge. I guess the comfort of the ancient traditions is actually very soothing and nice, and Pascal wanted to preserve that because the geo-centric understanding of the universe present in the Christian era was collapsing and the empty spaces in the universe were increasing to his horror.

I think Nitai ji, you have been very insightful in understanding the pitfalls of traditional theism and how it is at odds with the modern world view. Thank you for that.