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Post by Ed on Oct 7, 2019 5:08:16 GMT -6
Subrata
what you have said about me, I accept. I apologise for not expressing myself in a proper manner here and causing this disturbance. Please, do keep sharing with us about the lila and teachings of Bodo Baba, I would appreciate it very much.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 18:44:40 GMT -6
Another big testimony is that from the age old traditional Vaishnava Lilabhumi in Navadwip & Puri of Mahaprabhu barring some centers recently taken over by IGM no where this chanting of Mahamantra can be found in pratice.
1) for e.g The Foremost Gaudiya Vaishnava lila bhumi even if we keep in mind in Vrindavan is Puri Sri Gour Gambhira. This is the supreme important place among Gaudiya Vaishna tradition . In this place of Mahaprabhus eternal past time lilabhumi the 24 hours Kirtan is being sung since the time of Mahaprabhu in a un-interrupted manner. What is the kirtan? It is "Srikrishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nityananda , Hare Krishna Hare Ram Sri Radhe Govinda" - No Mahamantra.
Why we / other parties failed to consider this practice from age old day? They really do not have answer.
2) Same is true if we go another important place of Haridas Thakura Bhajan Kutir in Puri which is also another prime place prime importance . Here also 24 hours interrupted Kirtan is being sung since the time of Mahaprabhu. This same Kirtan is being sung there.
"Srikrishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nityananda , Hare Krishna Hare Ram Sri Radhe Govinda" - No Mahamantra.
Subrato, I doubt that these things are true. Everyone knows that the followers of Bodo Baba became the caretakers of those sites in Puri, probably not until quite recently. The kirtanas you claim have been going on since the time of Mahaprabhu all resemble the kirtan that Bodo Baba revealed in the 19th century (bhaja nitai-gaura radhe shyam; japa hare krishna hare ram). How can they possibly have been going on from the time of Mahaprabhu? They even have the same grammatical mistake that Bodo Baba made by using Radhe instead of Radha. These chants may be going on in those places now, but they certainly only date back to when the followers of Bodo Baba took over care of those sites, not back to Mahaprabhu. I have been to the Haridas Thakur ashram when Baba was staying there. They were singing Bhaja Nitai Gaur Radhe Shyam Japa Hare Krishna Hare Ram. There is no old testimony to support your claim about these sites. This is precise the reason I have asked you on receiving you first at my place in St. Louis to go and spend some time in Dhama and be my guest. You have lost almost all touch of Dhama, it's glory , history and lilasthali. Sri Rupa stated it is important for vaishnava to always reside in dhama if not physically but mentally. But without the memory of Dhama how one can reside in mentally? That is the reason also even if one can not continue to live in dhama, time to time he should visit the dhama to refresh his memory and received the foot dust of Vaishnavas to continue his mental residence in offshore. The reference I have given 1) Sri Gambhira & 2) Sri Haridas Thakur Bhajan Kutir are not at all controlled by Sri Radharaman Charan Das Dev's followers. In other thread I have posted the photograph of present Mahanta Sri Dhyanchandra Goswami of Gopal Guru Goswami's lineage since the time of Mahaprabhu. I do not see you are spending enough time to digest what I am posting. The Sri Haridas Thakur Bhajan Kutir is in Sidhdha Bakul not controlled by Sri Radharaman CHaran Das Deva's followers. It is also controlled by Babajis of Sri Gambhira since the time of Mahaprabhu , and both the places the 24 hours Nam Samkirtan being performed as " Sri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nityananda Hare Krishna Hare Ram Sri Radhe Govinda" " Check the " Radhe" Bodo Baba is not the only one we entire Gaudiya Community, All other Sampradhaya of Vrindavan community all call Radharani as Radhe adding the of sweet personalized closeness. This my be gramatical mistake from you newly invented book of Bengali/Sankskrit grammar. We all call yugal as Radhe-Shyem, Radhe-Govinda as they perform their Kirtan in Gambhira. Numerous Vasinava Padavali were created with Radhe word. I am sometime wonder, if you really operation with your senses sometimes? What is the Nibarkis Kirtan do you know in vrindavan? They chant & Kirtan Radhey Krishna Radhe Krishna Krishna Krishna Radhe Radhe Radhe Shyam Radhe Shyam Shyam Shaym Radhe Radhe !! While in vrindavan have you got a chance to listen to this kirtan once? In case not next time visit Vrndavan try to catch up with many such unfinished task. And how do you think Sri Radharaman Charan Das Dev invented the NGRS kirtan? By sitting in arm chair, in remote shore of another part of world -> juggling with Sankskrit/Bengali books borrowed from various sources trying to find right meter & balances to invent the Kirtan he would preach to his followers. If we have not read entire Charit Sudha -> may get some blessings and pardon of your long standing offences towards Holy Name. In your Guru Bhai Mahtma Sri Vinod Vihari Das Baba made point to recite/perform Path of hindi Version of Charit Sudha in his asram for his followers. Next time go and get some association with him. In Summary you failed to disntinguish Hari Das Thakur Samadhi which in Bank of Sea Shore with Haridas Thakur Bhajan Kutir Sidhdha Bakul which I referred and forget about your audacity of finding grammatical fault in NGRS name through which name Srimad Radha Raman Charan Das Dev performed numerous miracle such as dancing tree, dogs festival etc. Not sure you are remotely aware of not. At least be little aware what you visited with your blessed Gurudeva in Puri and reflect and respond. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 19:24:58 GMT -6
Subrato Babu, I seem to have hit a real sensitive nerve with you. You seem angry and upset with me. I swear I am not being sarcastic with you when I call you Babu. I refer to many of my Bengali friends in this way. Nor, did I have you in mind when I said, "False ego is the smug belief that one already knows the truth and that one should follow blindly." I value your input here and respect your knowledge of the Caitanya Vaisnava tradition as it currently exists in India. I don't, however, think that you are always right and I don't think your warning applied to Eduardo at all. The verse you refer to from Sri Jiva Goswami's Tattva-sandarbha is this (6): yaḥ śrīkṛṣṇapadāmbhojabhajanaikābhilāṣavān|
tenaiva dṛśyatāmetadanyasmai śapatho'rpitaḥ||
This does not mean what you claim it means. It means: One whose sole wish is to worship the lotus feet of Sri Krsna is the one who qualified to study this book. Let the others be cursed. [Added note: Sri Jiva in his Sarva-samvadini commentary on this verse glosses "eka" by "mukhya" thereby softening his meaning from "only desire" to "primary desire."] That fits Eduardo to a tee. He has been humbly pursuing this path for years, studying every book on CV he can find and asking excellent, insightful questions about the tradition. You don't even know him. How do you know that he doesn't have Sri Krsnapadambhoja-bhajana-eka-abhilasa? All you know about him is that he has not been initiated yet. There are plenty of people who have been initiated who have less abhilasa than he. So simply based on the fact that he is not yet initiated you assume that he has no such abhilasa? This is not good, brother. He knows the importance of finding a qualified guru. He also knows that not all gurus are really qualified. Look at the IGM gurus. Even our Vaisnava scriptures tell us that the disciple should test a potential guru for a year. The guru from his side should test a potential disciple for a year, as well. It is not a one-sided interaction. If a guru is a fool and cannot give the proper answers, he should be rejected. This testing {pariksa) is what I meant by critical thinking in his case. We are encouraged to use our brains even before we have chosen to accept a guru. There is no question of material or spiritual. I hope you can understand this. If you feel anger at my saying this, it just might be your false ego that is the problem. Do you have acrayya tika / tippani on the above verse. Do you know by "others" means to whom Sriva Means for Curse? Check commentary of acharyya, this other means Ku-Tarkik, Non-Believer , People who makes their living using sastra for pride , fame & distinction. Definitely he has not said one should read & discuss sastra for finding Guru. It is first sradhdha which comes from Ahaituki Kripa of Sri Krisna & His associates and gets the opportunity for sadhu-sanga -> after sadhu sanga receiving the grace of Sri Guru -> Atha Bhajan Kriya -> Knowing the bhajan padhdhati from Sri Guru or Siksha Guru accourning to their own taste of Bhajan -> This is where knowledge comes from Sri Guru ( Either Diksha or Bhajan Siksha Guru ) -> What kind of Gyan? It is Sambandga- Abhidheya - Prayojon -> To start the process of Bhaja under the guidance of Sri Guru. If one sits here and there, does association with people have ill reputation specially Offence towards Holy Name-> Read Sastra or discuss sastra here and there ( more of the pre-text of discussion is finding the controversy and ponder endless time in it ) -> specially not associating with advanced devotee/Mahat to you think one would have any opportunity to generate causless mercy of Sadhus which is the root cause of having sradhdha? Now blind faith. What is blind faith -> Are you trying to find a new path as founder of new religion or want to reach as spiritual destination? If 2nd objective is true -> is it not sastra advised us to follow Mahajana's -> Majana GatH Ja Pantha? When we were child learning own mother language did we debate with father or mother what we should call Mother as Mom or some other word never part of the language. Did we not try to put our faith to our parents for the right teachings of language? Even though unknowingly? When learning Mathematics did we first research with our limited knowledge using abstract algebra 1+1 is indeed 2? Or did we debate with our Math Teacher 1+1 = 3 prove me then I will learn? And if we did what kind student we will end up being? We may not even allowed to sit in exam , would be shown the door or behavioral treatment center. I do not think Nitai Das you do know know this, but acknowledging the same would not fulfill your purpose of being...you think and you would certainly by pass this basic logic again and again. And what is the result of your critical thinking? " Sanatan Goswami was lamenting for missing the taste of Beef Meet Ball in his spare time in Braja " Can you remember your conclusion critical thinker Nitai Das? Or "Krishna exist in plane of imagination" or Many many un-manifested critical thinking garbage from your brain -> to be manifested in future to make rest of the world grateful to you? Nitai Das Ji change your expression here as you are caught. This expression you have used long back ( 10 yr?? ) against me while showing some of the flaws and absurdity in your claim. It is the expression comes of your lips if one really massage your sensitive nerves . ( As a Vaishnava I can not think to hit your sensitive nerve, but massaging may extract the desired sound from your lips. In this case it did. ) This is my last post in this forum. I really felt very sorry to join back once again after meeting wonderfull indidiviual Neil and hearing from him about ED, thought I can really help them. But that is not the case at least not in this association. Nitai Das Ji -> My offer to visit dhama and be my guest at my home is still open for you and family. I will be same gracious and sincerely joyful in receiving you there. Only thing I can not continue with you with your present state of mind which I see no changes after so many years. Jay Nitai |
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 8, 2019 16:37:00 GMT -6
The verse you refer to from Sri Jiva Goswami's Tattva-sandarbha is this (6): yaḥ śrīkṛṣṇapadāmbhojabhajanaikābhilāṣavān|
tenaiva dṛśyatāmetadanyasmai śapatho'rpitaḥ||
This does not mean what you claim it means. It means: One whose sole wish is to worship the lotus feet of Sri Krsna is the one who qualified to study this book. Let the others be cursed. [Added note: Sri Jiva in his Sarva-samvadini commentary on this verse glosses "eka" by "mukhya" thereby softening his meaning from "only desire" to "primary desire."] I have been wondering how to respond to you, Subrato. This has taken a decidedly personal turn. Of course, we do not want to lose you. Some of the younger members of this symposium think that you have something to contribute. I have growing doubts about that. I started this forum because I disliked the way other forums could simply censure someone if they did not like their views. I feel that all views should be allowed and discussed and that no one should be censured or banned. You, on the other hand, think that some members should be shut up instead of doing the responsible thing of telling a poster you disagree with: "Well, good job YYY, except that I think you have made a mistake here and instead of that you should look at it this other way." Yes. I have checked all three extant commentaries and none of them use the word kutarka to describe anyasmai. It is all in your feverish imagination. It is of course sraddha that brought Ed and Nilamadhava and Jiva and others here. They are the recipients of Krsna's causeless mercy already. And here they get some sanga as well, except of course when someone like you chooses to stomp on them instead. Maybe you think of that as showing your mercy. Reading sastra is also sanga. We read Rupa and Sanatana and others of the tradition. Their words are our sanga. We do not need to visit Vraja or Navadvipa or put up with the likes of you. Every time we utter the name Krsna or Radha or Gauranga. They are here with us. Of course not. I would not be so presumptuous. But neither can we follow the old Mahajana either. The world has changed. We have to find our own ways under their inspiration, but ways that fit this new world we live in. We cannot go live under trees in Vraja living on alms and bathing in ponds. Neither can you. We asked plenty of questions. We did not sit there just nodding our heads and pursing our lips. This is another screwy example that does not match the situation that we find ourselves in today. Of course we asked questions and raised doubts. CV is not all like mathematics. It is not self-evident nor is it of any practical application. Questioning is essential. What do you know of my purpose? I don't believe I ever said such a thing. You are being completely foolish now. Of course he does. He exists on all planes. You are being flagrantly asinine here. And if this is your attitude toward me, perhaps it is best for you not to participate here any more. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that you are not a Vaisnava at all except for show. You always brag about who you know, this Baba and that Mahant and how much they love you. It is nothing but your false ego speaking, hoping that some of their greatness will rub off on you in the eyes of innocent . Good bye and good riddance. You can still help them on your own if you choose not to stomp on them instead. Do not worry. I will not come visit you. Better to keep one's distance from ones such as you. I nevertheless wish you well. May you someday search in your heart and find that somehow real bhakti has appeared there. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 8:40:12 GMT -6
Though I mentioned prevously would be my last post just for sake of other new borad member who does not access of western virtual discussion board history I am responding for one last time. Nitai Das Ji, Even though I was aware of all non-sense thinking and remarks you made, I has respect at least you may be honest and at somepoint of time you will beg forgiveness for all your misdeed to respective Vaishnavas or Tradition. But I was wrong. Here is the proof of your comment about Sanatan Goswami in radhesyamadhama discussion board, which was very strongly protested by our good old friend Advaita Das, he has good record to keep history in his blog. Here is the reference which he recorded & discussed about your offensive remark against Sanatan Goswami Pad back in 2007 and continued argument with Adwaita Das. madangopal.blogspot.com/2007/06/meating-goswamis.htmlSmall excerpt from that discussion. [ Meating the Goswāmīs: This is an excerpt from a thread about meat-eating that appeared on radhesyamadhama discussion board, but which is now deleted by the moderators. And subsequent protest by Advaita Das Ji. Posted by: nitaidas May 28 2007, 06:21 AM QUOTE (advaitadas @ May 28 2007, 02:28 AM) "My 2 cents - no Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava ācārya ate meat, no rank and file Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava ever ate meat, no Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava śāstra prescribes or endorses meat offerings, my Guru was a vegetarian from birth to the grave, and refused to give even harināma to candidates who ate even fish (very common in Bengal). I myself became a vegetarian in 1976, long before I converted to Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism, and it was for elevation of my consciousness, not necessarily out of compassion, that I did it. As for meat in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa - that's nothing compared to the Brahma Vaivarta Purāṇa, where there are multiple descriptions of the Vrajavāsīs eating meat. However, my Guru taught me 'śāstraṁ bhāgavataṁ pramāṇam amalam' - 'The Bhāgavat Purāṇa is the spotless authority'. And there's not a fiber of meat in there...... " Nitāi Dās responded: "I'd like to know how Advaita Das got to be omniscient. How can he be so categorically sure of himself? "No Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava acarya ate meat." How does he know this? We know very little about the early lives of the Gosvāmins. We aren't even told that they were married or who their wives were or whether they had children. Isn't it quite likely that they were married? Because that was the common practice among brahmins those days. When they were ministers at the court of Hussein Shah it is also very likely that they were invited to dinners in which they ate meat. Moreover as typical Bengalis they probably ate fish on their own. No Bengali meal is complete without at least the flavor of fish. As for Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma they probably ate meat regularly. They were kṣatriyas after all. But even as vaiśyas living in a vaiśya community they probably ate meat. Gopāla means cow-keeper or cowherder not cow-protector. I would be completely surprised to find out that the gopas did not eat meat. What cowherding community does not eat meat today?" ................ .............. and many more... ........... ] Hope and Pray for quick and speedy recovery of you Nitai Das Ji from offence of Holy Name and Achryya. ED, Do not worry, I was not at all annoyed by you, rather wanted to give you a direction from distraction of the present sanga which will work for sure by the grace of Nitaichand. Embrace holy Name wholeheartedly , initially holy Name will act as Samsthi Guru for you and would direct you towards your diksha Guru. Rest Assured. My beloved Babaji Maharaja whose last instruction in his last kirtan just second before he left his body amidst of full devotee in kirtan "Nam Koro Pranpone Nam- Nami - Namdata ek jene " Take refuge of Sri Naam wholeheartedly By knowing SriKrishna, Sriname & Sri Guru being one and the same. I will be available for you should you need and guidance for real sanga of Vaishnava in case you are really searching for Guru but not though this virtual sanga but I prefer direct correspondence one to one. JD is definitely one such qualified individual who can guide you from west. But better to talk directly with humility & respect understanding his / ones long standing effort in the path of receiving the Grace of Holy Name. If you can read one single book if possible which has immense importance for any level of Sadhaka -> Namaparadha Darpan by Srimat Namavigyanacharyya Kanupriya Goswami ( Mirror of seeing own offence towards Holy Name ). This is of great boon by Mahaprabhu through the writing of Kanupriya Goswami to protect sincere aspirant Sadhaka. To All: Gaur e Matirastu. May your chitta absorbed in lotus feet of Sri Gaurasundar. Jay Nitai Gour Radhe Shyam (BTW can moderator please delete my account. I am not able to find the option for deletion my own account here) |
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 9, 2019 13:58:47 GMT -6
Though I mentioned prevously would be my last post just for sake of other new borad member who does not access of western virtual discussion board history I am responding for one last time. Nitai Das Ji, Even though I was aware of all non-sense thinking and remarks you made, I has respect at least you may be honest and at somepoint of time you will beg forgiveness for all your misdeed to respective Vaishnavas or Tradition. But I was wrong. Here is the proof of your comment about Sanatan Goswami in radhesyamadhama discussion board, which was very strongly protested by our good old friend Advaita Das, he has good record to keep history in his blog. Here is the reference which he recorded & discussed about your offensive remark against Sanatan Goswami Pad back in 2007 and continued argument with Adwaita Das. madangopal.blogspot.com/2007/06/meating-goswamis.htmlSmall excerpt from that discussion. [ Meating the Goswāmīs: This is an excerpt from a thread about meat-eating that appeared on radhesyamadhama discussion board, but which is now deleted by the moderators. And subsequent protest by Advaita Das Ji. Posted by: nitaidas May 28 2007, 06:21 AM QUOTE (advaitadas @ May 28 2007, 02:28 AM) "My 2 cents - no Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava ācārya ate meat, no rank and file Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava ever ate meat, no Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava śāstra prescribes or endorses meat offerings, my Guru was a vegetarian from birth to the grave, and refused to give even harināma to candidates who ate even fish (very common in Bengal). I myself became a vegetarian in 1976, long before I converted to Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism, and it was for elevation of my consciousness, not necessarily out of compassion, that I did it. As for meat in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa - that's nothing compared to the Brahma Vaivarta Purāṇa, where there are multiple descriptions of the Vrajavāsīs eating meat. However, my Guru taught me 'śāstraṁ bhāgavataṁ pramāṇam amalam' - 'The Bhāgavat Purāṇa is the spotless authority'. And there's not a fiber of meat in there...... " Nitāi Dās responded: "I'd like to know how Advaita Das got to be omniscient. How can he be so categorically sure of himself? "No Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava acarya ate meat." How does he know this? We know very little about the early lives of the Gosvāmins. We aren't even told that they were married or who their wives were or whether they had children. Isn't it quite likely that they were married? Because that was the common practice among brahmins those days. When they were ministers at the court of Hussein Shah it is also very likely that they were invited to dinners in which they ate meat. Moreover as typical Bengalis they probably ate fish on their own. No Bengali meal is complete without at least the flavor of fish. As for Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma they probably ate meat regularly. They were kṣatriyas after all. But even as vaiśyas living in a vaiśya community they probably ate meat. Gopāla means cow-keeper or cowherder not cow-protector. I would be completely surprised to find out that the gopas did not eat meat. What cowherding community does not eat meat today?" ................ .............. and many more... ........... ] Hope and Pray for quick and speedy recovery of you Nitai Das Ji from offence of Holy Name and Achryya. ED, Do not worry, I was not at all annoyed by you, rather wanted to give you a direction from distraction of the present sanga which will work for sure by the grace of Nitaichand. Embrace holy Name wholeheartedly , initially holy Name will act as Samsthi Guru for you and would direct you towards your diksha Guru. Rest Assured. My beloved Babaji Maharaja whose last instruction in his last kirtan just second before he left his body amidst of full devotee in kirtan "Nam Koro Pranpone Nam- Nami - Namdata ek jene " Take refuge of Sri Naam wholeheartedly By knowing SriKrishna, Sriname & Sri Guru being one and the same. I will be available for you should you need and guidance for real sanga of Vaishnava in case you are really searching for Guru but not though this virtual sanga but I prefer direct correspondence one to one. JD is definitely one such qualified individual who can guide you from west. But better to talk directly with humility & respect understanding his / ones long standing effort in the path of receiving the Grace of Holy Name. If you can read one single book if possible which has immense importance for any level of Sadhaka -> Namaparadha Darpan by Srimat Namavigyanacharyya Kanupriya Goswami ( Mirror of seeing own offence towards Holy Name ). This is of great boon by Mahaprabhu through the writing of Kanupriya Goswami to protect sincere aspirant Sadhaka. To All: Gaur e Matirastu. May your chitta absorbed in lotus feet of Sri Gaurasundar. Jay Nitai Gour Radhe Shyam (BTW can moderator please delete my account. I am not able to find the option for deletion my own account here) Ah! I thought we would hear more from you. It is unlike a Bengali to leave without having the last word. You might have to come back to respond to this comment, Subrato Babu. We will leave you in the system for now. Thank you for reminding of my previous comments and for connecting them to this forum. It is a great service, but perhaps not the one you hoped it would be. I stand by those comments even now. They are completely reasonable and realistic. Advaitadas's out burst was simply emotional and without any evidence in support of his claims. His words were an expression of the unrealistic and completely imaginary view of the members of the early Vaisnava community and especially of the Goswamis. I hate to also inform everyone that the Goswamis also pissed, and pooped and yes, when they were married they had sex too. Their feet touched the ground when they walked. And they grew old and died. They were ordinary men. They left wives and probably kids behind when they joined Caitanya and Vaisnava literature completely has erased them. Shame! Shame on CV! I find it hard to believe that anyone can witness such cruelty and not be saddened. I feel sorry for Subrato's wife and boy. Surely he will cast them aside someday and become a Babaji. I felt sorry for my Baba's wife and kid. He could not wait to get away from them. Siddha Manohar Das Baba sent him back home at least once. I think on one level it is extremely selfish. It is placing oneself above the others who love and depend on you. In contrast, look at my gurubhai Jagadishji. He cared for his step-father and mother for years as their lives came to an end. I think that is admirable and 50 times more Vaisnava than anything Subrato has done or said in his whole life. Is it really not possible to attain Krsna-prema unless one casts aside family? Now I am not saying that they ate meat after becoming Vaisnavas or joining with Caitanya. But look at the reality of India today. Only twenty percent of Indians are vegetarian today. Do you really think it was much different back then. I am all for vegetarianism. I have been one for 50 years, longer than Subrato has been alive. In fact, I have been a Vaisnava for longer than he has been alive. But I am not a Vaisnava like him. I think he is a disgrace to the CV tradition. He is, if one analyzes his words and actions a Vaidha bhakta and at that a kanistha adhikari. Such bhaktas care more about the rules than about people. His bhakti is rule-based. He is more concerned with whether others are following the rules than his own cultivation. The typical western disciple approaches CV from the perspective of raga. Why? Because we don't know any of the rules and don't give a damn about the scriptures. To us they hold no authority that we feel we have to follow. We are simply drawn by attraction to Krsna. That is something Subrato lacks. His misfortune is that he was raised in India where respect for the scriptures, as ahistorical and unrealistic as it is, was drummed into him as a kid. He has been programmed to think that he has to follow the vidhis to gain success. That is what this whole business of counting the Mahamantra is about: compliance to vidhi. And where does the path of vidhi lead? It leads to Vaikuntha according to Rupa Goswami. So if one wants to end up in Vaikuntha, Subrato is your man. He's the bus driver on the express bus to Vaikuntha. Actually, he may just be the ticket collector. But raganuga bhaktas don't want that; they want Goloka. That is reached by another, more exclusive line. Anyway, my advice for the younger members of the forum is this: if you want to be the kind of Vaisnava that Subrato is (ie., rigidly authoritarian, irrational, delusional, self-enamored, unrealistic, ahistorical, anti-scientific, fanatical, etc. etc.) then indeed go to him. I find him an insufferable phony and want nothing to do with him. He does not represent the kind of CV that I have hope for and love. What is the alternative? Take his advice: trust the Holy Name. The Holy Name will surely reveal to you what is real and true and I doubt that you will find Subrato will be any where near that. Subrato, how is it you do not know the difference between Radha and Radhe? Did you have no Sanskrit in school? |
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 10, 2019 10:15:21 GMT -6
I am sorry for the unpleasantness of the last series of posts. It was not my intention to get into a sometimes heated exchange with Subrato. I just wanted him to stop censuring our members. But, he apparently felt compelled to justify his actions and to attack me in the process. That is fine. There is much about my way of understanding the tradition that differs from the standard party line. Maybe I should just stop thinking of myself as a Vaisnava, since I don't match up very well with what he and others think a Vaisnava should be. But to do that would be to give in to the forces of repression and regression that seem to have gripped traditional CV. My hope has always been to try to create a CV movement for the future that was better, more progressive, than what we have seen so far. The problem is discovering how to not throw out the baby with the bath water. At present I am not sure what the baby is exactly. That needs to be more carefully reflected on and determined. There is much that can be left behind, like most of Indian cultural practices and assumptions, but one also needs to carefully preserve the essential truths. That is the challenge. So anyone who is not turned off by my mere wondering if Sanatana Goswami once ate meat and maybe occasionally missed it, is welcome to join me in this challenge. anyasmai shapatho'rpitaH
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 13, 2019 12:16:08 GMT -6
Greetings all!
I have been away for a few days. I will try to post the complete Mahamantra text in a few days. I am nearly finished. I expect I will have the initial matter done from Kanupriya Goswami's Nama-cinatmani in another thread. I am going to keep plodding on in spite of opposition from the CV right wing. Subrato is now a bhuta on this site, a disembodied spirit with a penchant for haunting, for those of you who don't known what a bhuta is. In other words, he is a ghost. The best way to scare him off is to sing or utter the Mahamantra without counting.
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 28, 2019 13:59:05 GMT -6
Report: I am almost done with Sundarananda's Mahamantra. I have one long paragraph to finish and that will conclude the text. I must say it is quite an interesting text and in many ways, an education in the history of the Mahamantra as practiced in the Caitanya tradition. The question now is what to do with it. Should I publish it as a book? It is less than 80 pages long, but may grow longer if I add an introduction. It might also be put in a larger work in which Sundarananda's later view is placed side-by-side with this earlier work, at least on the question of counting. In this work he is all for counting the Mahamantra whenever it is chanted, either on mala or in kirtana, Later, his views differ as the result of Kanupriya Goswami's influence on him.
Any suggestions?
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jiva
Full Member
Posts: 142
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Post by jiva on Oct 28, 2019 22:18:28 GMT -6
In my opinion, books should be translated and published as much as possible in order to remedy the damage (done by IGM or anyone else).
In this particular case, I prefer the second variant to make the reader see the difference in opinion himself.
An introduction is also necessary to learn more about Sundarananda Vidyavinoda. |
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Post by Ed on Nov 6, 2019 11:04:26 GMT -6
Report: I am almost done with Sundarananda's Mahamantra. I have one long paragraph to finish and that will conclude the text. I must say it is quite an interesting text and in many ways, an education in the history of the Mahamantra as practiced in the Caitanya tradition. The question now is what to do with it. Should I publish it as a book? It is less than 80 pages long, but may grow longer if I add an introduction. It might also be put in a larger work in which Sundarananda's later view is placed side-by-side with this earlier work, at least on the question of counting. In this work he is all for counting the Mahamantra whenever it is chanted, either on mala or in kirtana, Later, his views differ as the result of Kanupriya Goswami's influence on him. Any suggestions? Hi, Nitai i think that a full volume with both books, intro and appendix as other BSP editions would be ideal, and it might be Sundarananda’s last chance to get that sort of treatment in English, that would be great. But it seems like a lot of work also, two volumes might be easier to achieve, what do you think? In any case, I’m looking forward to reading the final pdf of this text. |
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Post by Nitaidas on Nov 6, 2019 12:30:53 GMT -6
Greetings All, I have finished the first draft of Mahamantra by Sundarananda Das. It is in need of editing and proof-reading. If anyone wants to send me corrections and suggestions for improving the text, I will be much appreciative. I will write a short introduction to Sundarananda, his other works, and his departure from the GM. Thanks to Visakha Dasi and Subrato I have several of his later works, works that he completed in the 1950s before his departure (1954-5?) from GM and after (up to his death in or before 1964?). He was an extraordinary scholar of the tradition who received the grace of Kanupriya Goswami at the end of his life. You can grab the completed version of Mahamantra here.I will also get back to work on the front matter of the Sri Nama-cintamani of Kanupriya Goswami. Hope to post that in a few days. |
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Post by Ed on Nov 6, 2019 20:19:06 GMT -6
Sounds great, Nitai, looks like that introduction will shed light on this text’s contrast with his later works, and the text itself is valuable enough to be a single volume, I'm really looking forward to read it. Thank you for uploading this finished draft, I’ll take a careful read of it as soon as I’m back home and post any questions I have about it here.
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Post by service to Radha's feet on Sept 27, 2021 19:47:34 GMT -6
Radhe Radhe! I have been reading this thread. Very good! I want to add that the Radharaman Goswami Gaudiya Vaisnava tradition does not support the chanting of maha mantra in kirtan with musical instruments. They follow the tradition of counting the maha mantra on mala. They have musical nam kirtans, but not with maha mantra.
I am now contemplating doing strickly kirtan of non-maha mantra nam kirtans instead of maha mantra kirtan.
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Post by meeno8 on Sept 28, 2021 17:15:26 GMT -6
FYI: They would take offense to the term Gaudiya Vaishnava, and one of them even told me so. They don't want Mahaprabhu's movement to be characterized as something exclusive to West Bengali. For that reason, we use the acronoym CV on this site (Caitanya Vaishnavism). I am not sure about the history of the term 'Gaudiya Vaishana' or its origin. It could have started just about anywhere or anywhen, perhaps with IGM.
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