Post by malati on Jun 20, 2009 5:14:02 GMT -6
Found this in a Hindu forum. I was really dying of laughter when I read it. Enjoy!!
My Experiences with ISKCON
Since a number of ISKCONites or those who at least defend ISKCON have preached their school and attacked others of different schools, I think it is time to present the other side of the story. I am going to share my experiences with ISKCON which are simply not positive. Note that my experiences here refer to multiple temples.
For starters, if you show a genunine interest in spirituality or advancing yourself, instead of them trying to help you they try to use you and all the while pretending that they help you. For example, the "Krishna Seva" in my opinion is taken to the extreme. It is one thing to teach someone to humble themselves by encouraging them to do some seva around the place. Yet as time goes by you start realizing that you are spending virtually 100% of your time serving them but they are spending 0% of their time serving you.
This caught my attention when every time I would ever ask a question about something or have a legitimate concern, they either could not answer the question or they would simply direct you to chant, do some seva, or read Prabhupada's books. Yet people claiming to be big gurus still could not answer basic questions and often would not even take the time to look at you.
Additionally, I noticed a disturbing hypocrisy between their attitudes toward those who live at the temple and those who live outside. When you express a genuine interest in spirituality, instead of giving you constructive advice they try to control your life. "Move into the temple" is the repeated mantra and if you dare to mention that you have responsibilities outside of the temple such as family or work, they criticize you without even knowing anything about you or your life. It is quite hypocritical for the fact that these temples rely primarily on those working outside of the temple for donations to keep the system running.
Everything I have ever seen has been little more than a show. They keep preaching about chanting the Maha Mantra, giving Gita lectures, and encouraging devotees to do seva, yet they cannot even answer simple questions or spend 5 minutes of quality time listening to your comments or concerns. I am referring to the management as well as live-in devotees when I refer to "they." I have spent years visiting these temples and have become burned out with it. I thought I would give Vaishnavism a chance but from what I have experienced they give it a bad name.
I have observed a cult-like atmosphere where you cannot dare to disagree yet the people in charge clearly aren't qualified. They babble on and on and on about "Bhakti" or "love" yet not once do you ever actually see them practicing it. It is pretty ridiculous that people can claim they are doing loving service by chanting the Maha Mantra yet only want to use other people without helping them. I've never stayed in any of these temples, just lived on the outside but it is very observable. If they have so much "bhakti" then isn't it strange that they are always interested in what you can do for the temple yet the thought of what the temple can do for you is not in their minds?
It is almost like a conspiracy. The second you have some inspiring conversations with other devotees such as in the parking lot outside of the temple or in the hallway or other area, one or more of the live-in devotees come to break up your conversation and ask you to do some seva or participate in their upcoming program yet when you turn around to ask them for some help, they have no time and no interest. At this point they refer you to just chant or read a book. The same goes if you are meditating or chanting. They actually will interrupt you and ask you to help them but again won't spend a minute of their time helping you. Not to mention that you can't chant or meditate as these temple rooms are never quiet but instead full of screaming kids and adult chit-chat.
Not to mention I have seen certain gurus introducted as speakers and when I searched them on the internet, they had spent time in prison on serious felony charges. I won't name names here but it seems like more of them have been in trouble with the law than have not. This includes "cooking the books" or "money laundering" as well as child abuse going back to the 1980s with the gurukulas. Others include selling drugs and possessing illegal firearms.
Last but not least, I don't appreciate the brainwashing that goes on there. I can see to a certain degree that if you live at the temple, you have to follow their rules. What is ridiculous is to be constantly criticized for how you live outside of the temple. For instance, if you say that you watched a great movie last night, their response is "why would you watch a movie instead of chant?" and then babble on about how watching movies is just wasting time in the material world. Same if you have hobbies or other interests that are independent of spirituality. You mention that you like hiking or coin collecting and they state respectively that hiking is a waste of time and that you should just chant and that instead of collecting coins you should give everything you own to the temple and move in. Additionally, they advertise themselves as "non-sectarian" and "all-inclusive" yet they are more sectarian and exclusive than a Southern Baptist church.
A couple more examples: Every time I have stated that I am a Hindu people either say something critical about Hinduism or say that there is no such thing as "Hinduism" or otherwise have their eyes go big. It is hypocritical because Gaudiya Vaishnavism is a Hindu sect. Second, every time I ever ask a question about whether someone has been seen there lately or not and such person happens to be of the opposite sex, they get paranoid and demand to want to know why I am asking about "women" at the temple.
I hate to use the word cult, but everything I have experienced at these temples is just like a cult where everyone has to think the same, act the same, do the same things, and even feel the same. It is a group think mentality where no one can have any opinions or lifestyle that isn't pre-approved by the group. I don't believe that this is proper spirituality. It is one thing for people to believe in the same religion and another thing when they cannot have any outside interests. More examples: If you travel, they cannot figure out why you didn't travel to visit other ISKCON temples; if you visit other temples they cannot imagine that you visited some that weren't ISKCON; if you read books they cannot understand why some of them aren't BBT books; if you hang out with friends outside of the temple they cannot understand why you would not be doing something temple-related; etc.
It is a group think that in my opinion is destructive and parasitic. They go to arms length criticizing anything deemed "material" as "maya" yet I actually realized there is more peacefulness and normalcy having a couple of beers at a local bar than dealing with all the mental cases at the temple. If that doesn't speak for itself about Kali Yuga, I don't know what does. I have actually gone a few times with some temple goers to a bar for a couple of drinks and had really powerful spiritual discussions there and felt like I gained so much more than I would have gained if I had instead gone to the temple where no spiritual discussion would have been possible. Pretty sad.
Some of you may have had different experiences but these are the experiences that I have had. The material world is already pretty bad but after going to these temples and dealing with these people enough times I have realized that the material world in many cases is actually more spiritual than these nut houses. I call it a nut house because every time I go it is almost impossible to have a normal conversation or to even see one person smile and spread some real bhakti instead of just rehearsed propaganda. If you don't know what I mean then what I am saying is that real bhakti would at least include a friendly greeting, smile, and willingness to spend just one minute of their time sharing with you. By rehearsed propaganda, this so called bhakti is basically this: "My mother was killed in a car accident/just go chant and be happy...my wife left me/would you help do the dishes?...I have a headache today/move in and all the pain will go away...I've got to get home to feed the cats/who needs cats when you have Krishna" In other words, no normal conversation, just brainwashed coded responses to everything. ~BYS~
My Experiences with ISKCON
Since a number of ISKCONites or those who at least defend ISKCON have preached their school and attacked others of different schools, I think it is time to present the other side of the story. I am going to share my experiences with ISKCON which are simply not positive. Note that my experiences here refer to multiple temples.
For starters, if you show a genunine interest in spirituality or advancing yourself, instead of them trying to help you they try to use you and all the while pretending that they help you. For example, the "Krishna Seva" in my opinion is taken to the extreme. It is one thing to teach someone to humble themselves by encouraging them to do some seva around the place. Yet as time goes by you start realizing that you are spending virtually 100% of your time serving them but they are spending 0% of their time serving you.
This caught my attention when every time I would ever ask a question about something or have a legitimate concern, they either could not answer the question or they would simply direct you to chant, do some seva, or read Prabhupada's books. Yet people claiming to be big gurus still could not answer basic questions and often would not even take the time to look at you.
Additionally, I noticed a disturbing hypocrisy between their attitudes toward those who live at the temple and those who live outside. When you express a genuine interest in spirituality, instead of giving you constructive advice they try to control your life. "Move into the temple" is the repeated mantra and if you dare to mention that you have responsibilities outside of the temple such as family or work, they criticize you without even knowing anything about you or your life. It is quite hypocritical for the fact that these temples rely primarily on those working outside of the temple for donations to keep the system running.
Everything I have ever seen has been little more than a show. They keep preaching about chanting the Maha Mantra, giving Gita lectures, and encouraging devotees to do seva, yet they cannot even answer simple questions or spend 5 minutes of quality time listening to your comments or concerns. I am referring to the management as well as live-in devotees when I refer to "they." I have spent years visiting these temples and have become burned out with it. I thought I would give Vaishnavism a chance but from what I have experienced they give it a bad name.
I have observed a cult-like atmosphere where you cannot dare to disagree yet the people in charge clearly aren't qualified. They babble on and on and on about "Bhakti" or "love" yet not once do you ever actually see them practicing it. It is pretty ridiculous that people can claim they are doing loving service by chanting the Maha Mantra yet only want to use other people without helping them. I've never stayed in any of these temples, just lived on the outside but it is very observable. If they have so much "bhakti" then isn't it strange that they are always interested in what you can do for the temple yet the thought of what the temple can do for you is not in their minds?
It is almost like a conspiracy. The second you have some inspiring conversations with other devotees such as in the parking lot outside of the temple or in the hallway or other area, one or more of the live-in devotees come to break up your conversation and ask you to do some seva or participate in their upcoming program yet when you turn around to ask them for some help, they have no time and no interest. At this point they refer you to just chant or read a book. The same goes if you are meditating or chanting. They actually will interrupt you and ask you to help them but again won't spend a minute of their time helping you. Not to mention that you can't chant or meditate as these temple rooms are never quiet but instead full of screaming kids and adult chit-chat.
Not to mention I have seen certain gurus introducted as speakers and when I searched them on the internet, they had spent time in prison on serious felony charges. I won't name names here but it seems like more of them have been in trouble with the law than have not. This includes "cooking the books" or "money laundering" as well as child abuse going back to the 1980s with the gurukulas. Others include selling drugs and possessing illegal firearms.
Last but not least, I don't appreciate the brainwashing that goes on there. I can see to a certain degree that if you live at the temple, you have to follow their rules. What is ridiculous is to be constantly criticized for how you live outside of the temple. For instance, if you say that you watched a great movie last night, their response is "why would you watch a movie instead of chant?" and then babble on about how watching movies is just wasting time in the material world. Same if you have hobbies or other interests that are independent of spirituality. You mention that you like hiking or coin collecting and they state respectively that hiking is a waste of time and that you should just chant and that instead of collecting coins you should give everything you own to the temple and move in. Additionally, they advertise themselves as "non-sectarian" and "all-inclusive" yet they are more sectarian and exclusive than a Southern Baptist church.
A couple more examples: Every time I have stated that I am a Hindu people either say something critical about Hinduism or say that there is no such thing as "Hinduism" or otherwise have their eyes go big. It is hypocritical because Gaudiya Vaishnavism is a Hindu sect. Second, every time I ever ask a question about whether someone has been seen there lately or not and such person happens to be of the opposite sex, they get paranoid and demand to want to know why I am asking about "women" at the temple.
I hate to use the word cult, but everything I have experienced at these temples is just like a cult where everyone has to think the same, act the same, do the same things, and even feel the same. It is a group think mentality where no one can have any opinions or lifestyle that isn't pre-approved by the group. I don't believe that this is proper spirituality. It is one thing for people to believe in the same religion and another thing when they cannot have any outside interests. More examples: If you travel, they cannot figure out why you didn't travel to visit other ISKCON temples; if you visit other temples they cannot imagine that you visited some that weren't ISKCON; if you read books they cannot understand why some of them aren't BBT books; if you hang out with friends outside of the temple they cannot understand why you would not be doing something temple-related; etc.
It is a group think that in my opinion is destructive and parasitic. They go to arms length criticizing anything deemed "material" as "maya" yet I actually realized there is more peacefulness and normalcy having a couple of beers at a local bar than dealing with all the mental cases at the temple. If that doesn't speak for itself about Kali Yuga, I don't know what does. I have actually gone a few times with some temple goers to a bar for a couple of drinks and had really powerful spiritual discussions there and felt like I gained so much more than I would have gained if I had instead gone to the temple where no spiritual discussion would have been possible. Pretty sad.
Some of you may have had different experiences but these are the experiences that I have had. The material world is already pretty bad but after going to these temples and dealing with these people enough times I have realized that the material world in many cases is actually more spiritual than these nut houses. I call it a nut house because every time I go it is almost impossible to have a normal conversation or to even see one person smile and spread some real bhakti instead of just rehearsed propaganda. If you don't know what I mean then what I am saying is that real bhakti would at least include a friendly greeting, smile, and willingness to spend just one minute of their time sharing with you. By rehearsed propaganda, this so called bhakti is basically this: "My mother was killed in a car accident/just go chant and be happy...my wife left me/would you help do the dishes?...I have a headache today/move in and all the pain will go away...I've got to get home to feed the cats/who needs cats when you have Krishna" In other words, no normal conversation, just brainwashed coded responses to everything. ~BYS~
