Bhagavatas Available

[Nitaidas]

I will acquire the 10 sets of the remaining two volumes, then. They should be available through Nitai's bookstore soon here in the States. I already have 9 sets of volumes 1 and 2. They are a fine edition and a worthy addition to anyone's library on Caitanya Vaisnavism.

Madanmohanji, what is the third edition you mentioned?

1 Gita Press

2. Ramkrishna Mission

3. ?

[madanmohandas]

The 5 vol. motilal one you mentioned. It also has quite a few extra chapters in the 10th Skandha. They have done a set of perhaps all the Puranas.

[Nitaidas]

That's right. I forgot about that one. What a memory lapse.

Thanks, madanmohanji.

I see that there is a critical edition (in Sanskrit, naturally) out now in four volumes. Seems like something I should try to acquire.

[maasikdharma]

Nitai, how much of both editions (GP and RKM) have you read and which one do you think is the better one - content wise?

I remember reading the GP Bhagavat Purana in India and finding it very difficult to get through due to the writing style.

[JD33]

Hi Maasik - I grew up reading the GP edition and love it! - at some point i will read the RKM edition too.

[madanmohandas]

Hi everyone. In the preface to the RKM edition the translator mentions an earlier "excellent translation" by Sri N. Raghunathan. I think he also did the Valmiki Ramayan too. I've no idea how to get a copy of his edition. GP edition is I think not quite as good as the RKM, but that's argueable. Actually neither of them are that faithful all the time. Going through them one can find ommissions and padding with doctrinal slant. Still the original text is there for referance.

[Nitaidas]

Hi Masikadharma,

Nice to see you around here again. Sorry I have been so negligent of the forum lately. Just got back from a spring break in Colorado and had to immediately torture my poor students with a midterm when I got back. Things are getting back to normal.

As for which of the Bhagavata translations I think is the best, I guess I would agree with madanamohan on this. The RKM translation seems more readable than the GP edition. I still have not order the final two volumes of that version, but will do that shortly. Ultimately, neither translation nor that of Tagare ( the five volume version published by Motilal) is really satisfying.

Here are some comparative examples:

GP translating 1.7.2-7:

Suta replied:

On the western bank of the Sarasvati river, presided over by Brahma, there is a hermitage called Samyaprasa, which promotes the sacrificial activities of the sages, (2) In that hermitage, which was Vyasa's own abode and was surrounded by a grove of jujube trees, the sage Vyasa sat down and, after sipping a little water, collected his mind by self-effort. (3) In his sinless mind, which had been perfectly concentrated through the practice of Devotion, he saw the Primal Person as well as Maya, who depends for her very existence on Him. (4) Deluded by this Maya, the individual soul, though beyond the three Gunas, thinks itself as consisting of the three Gunas and suffers the evil consequences brought about by this identification. (4) Knowing that the practice of Devotion to the Lord, who is beyond sense-perception, is the direct means of counteracting these evils, the sage composed the Srimad Bhagavata (the book of the Vaisnavas) for the use of the common people, who are ignorant of this fact. (6) Even as a man listens to this work recited, Devotion to Sri Krsna, the Supreme Person, wells up in his heart---Devotion that dispels grief, infatuation, and fear. (7) Having produced and revised the Bhagavata Samhita, the sage (Vedavyasa) taught it to his son Suka, who lived in retirement. (8)

Here is the RKM version of the same passage:

Suta said:

2. On the Western banks of the Sarasvati, which is the resort of many holy men, there is a specially sacred spot called Samyaprasa, most suited for spiritual retreats. 3. Sitting in his Ashrama at that spot beautified by groves of Badri trees, the Sage Vyasa entered into Samadhi, after observing the purificatory rites. 4. In his mind, purified and made concentrated through divine love, he had the perfect vision of the Supreme Being and the power of Maya dependent on Him. 5. It is by the power of Maya that Jiva, though he is in reality the free spirit, mistakenly considers himself as body, the product of the three Gunas, and invites all the sufferings of the life of Samsara. 6. He also realised that the panacea for these sufferings caused by Avidya (ignorance-generating aspect of Maya) is devotion to the Lord. That illumined sage therefore composed the Bhagavata Purana known also as the Sattvata-samhita (scripture of devotion) for the benefit of man grovelling in the ignorance of his spiritual nature---to teach him that Bhakti is the one means by which the darkness of ignorance can be dispelled and the spiritual glory of the Jiva restored. 7. Even by starting its study or listening to it, the mind of man develops Bhakti, or devotion to the Supreme Lord, which destroys all his sorrow, infatuation, and fear. What to speak of devoted application to its study or hearing! 8. After composing the Bhagavata and carefully revising it, the sage taught it to his son Suka, who was renunciation personified.

[Nitaidas]

Here is the version of the 5 volume set by Tagare:

2. One the western bank of the Sarasvati, the presiding deity of which is the god Brahma (or, which is resorted to by Brahmanas) there is a hermitage called Samyaprasa which encourages (lit. extends) the sacrificial sessions of the sages.

3. Sitting in his own hermitage beautified by a cluster of jujube trees, Vyasa, after 'touching water' (i.e. sipping it from the palm of his hand as is usually performed before any religious act or taking meals), concentrated his mind (as instructed by Narada).

4. In his mind purified by devotion and thoroughly concentrated, he saw at first the Primeval Being and (his power called) Maya (Illusion) depending on him.

5. Though the individual soul is beyond the three attributes, he, being deluded by her (Maya), regards himself as consisting of the three attributes and suffers calamities (e.g. birth, death, three types of misery, etc) caused by the notion.

6, Realizing that the path of devotion to Visnu directly subsides the calamities (of samsara mentioned above), the learned Vyasa composed the sattvata samhita (the Bhagavata Purana) for ignorant people.

7. Verily, by listening to this (the Bhagavata Purana) devotion unto Krsna, the Supreme Man, is developed. It (devotion) dispels all grief, infatuation, and fears (of man).

8. Having composed and arranged the Bhagavata Samhita, the sage taught it to his son Suka who was firmly fixed in renunciation.


So you can see some of the differences in this one passage. The 5 volume translation is nice in that it contains lots of notes from the various commentators, though its English style is rather clumsy at times.

Think also of how this passage and indeed all of them up to the end of the second Skandha refer to Vyasa in the third person. Then Suka takes over and recites the Purana for the benefit of Pariksit. This part of the purana seems like more of an advertisement for the purana than part of the purana itself.

Also of interest here is the basis of the purana that I mentioned before. It is based on the meditative experience of Vyasa (or someone). In other words it is based on pratyaksa not sabda. That is the basis of its claim to authenticity, not sabda. Pratyaksa is the fundamental pramana. In fact, one might say that sabda is ultimately unsatisfying. Vyasa had plenty of sabda but remained unsatisfied, incomplete. Now, I don't for a minute accept the idea that Vyasa wrote the text., He is being used as a cipher for the real author of the text who it would seem was an ecstatic.

[Ekantin]

Mar 20, 2010 14:02:50 GMT -6 Nitaidas said:

Also of interest here is the basis of the purana that I mentioned before. It is based on the meditative experience of Vyasa (or someone). In other words it is based on pratyaksa not sabda. That is the basis of its claim to authenticity, not sabda. Pratyaksa is the fundamental pramana. In fact, one might say that sabda is ultimately unsatisfying. Vyasa had plenty of sabda but remained unsatisfied, incomplete. Now, I don't for a minute accept the idea that Vyasa wrote the text., He is being used as a cipher for the real author of the text who it would seem was an ecstatic.

You see, I've read this section so many times (BBT version, admittedly) and this never occurred to me. Of course in theory we know that Puranas in general are not sabda in the sense of sruti, and they they are smriti, but somehow in my mind the parallel connection between sabda and distinguishing it from the pratyaksa that is the Bhagavata was never made. Thanks a lot for this important realisation.

[Nitaidas]

I have been meaning to mention that I now have complete sets of the Bhagavata translation produced by the Ramkrishna Mission. Four volumes selling for $60 for the complete set (plus shipping). They are the most readable translation of the work and include the original text in Devanagari. Translated by Swami Tapasyananda, this is the best translation so far.

I don't have it set up yet at the bookstore. If anyone, wants a copy email me through this site and I will tell you how to order one.