Is the Material World a Perverted Reflection?

[service to Radha's feet]

I have not heard this in a long time, but someone commented to me that the 'material world is a perverted reflection of the spiritual world.'

Does this come from a legitimate commentary? I have not personally come across it in my readings within the tradition. When I used to hear it decades ago it used to make some sense. Now, I am not finding how it relates to be true. Any comments?

[Nityānanda dāsa]

Aug 12, 2021 19:35:39 GMT -6 service to Radha's feet said:

I have not heard this in a long time, but someone commented to me that the 'material world is a perverted reflection of the spiritual world.'

Does this come from a legitimate commentary? I have not personally come across it in my readings within the tradition. When I used to hear it decades ago it used to make some sense. Now, I am not finding how it relates to be true. Any comments?

Isn't this example given in the Gita? The Banyan tree with its upside down (perverted) reflection on the water, with roots going up and the tree going down? I would say I've read this analogy used many times that the material world is a perverted reflection. The Gita would be my primary source to cite that from, but I want to say I've read it in many places and specifically in the traditional literature too, not just IGM. 

[madanmohandas]

Perhaps 'inverted'? That would be more apposite with the upside down Banyan tree maybe. Whereas 'perverted' sounds a bit pervy. hahahahaha

Invert
verb
past tense: inverted; past participle: inverted

put upside down or in the opposite position, order, or arrangement.

[service to Radha's feet]

Bhagavad Gita 15.1-4


śrī-bhagavān uvāca
ūrdhva-mūlam adhaḥ-śākham
aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam
chandāṁsi yasya parṇāni
yas taṁ veda sa veda-vit

Sri Bhagavan said: It is said (in the Vedas) that there is an imperishable Asvattha tree whose roots are upwards and whose branches are downwards, and the leaves of which are the Vedic hymns. One who knows this tree is the knower of the Vedas.

adhaś cordhvaṁ prasṛtās tasya śākhā
guṇa-pravṛddhā viṣaya-pravālāḥ
adhaś ca mūlāny anusantatāni
karmānubandhīni manuṣya-loke

Its branches, being nourished by the gunas of nature and bearing tender leaves in the form of sense objects, are spread above and below. Its (secondary) roots that cause perpetual bindings to karma extend downwards also in the the world of human beings.

na rūpam asyeha tathopalabhyate
nānto na cādir na ca sampratiṣṭhā
aśvattham enaṁ su-virūḍha-mūlam
asaṅga-śastreṇa dṛḍhena chittvā

tataḥ padaṁ tat parimārgitavyaṁ
yasmin gatā na nivartanti bhūyaḥ
tam eva cādyaṁ puruṣaṁ prapadye
yataḥ pravṛttiḥ prasṛtā purāṇī

The form of this tree as previously described is unascertainable in this material world; it is without end, without beginning, and without support. After cutting this deep-rooted Asvattha tree with the powerful weapon of detachment, one should diligently search for the destination after reaching which people do not return again, declaring: "I take shelter of this Primeval Person alone from whom this ancient creation has come forth."

I have read commentaries from 4 Vaisnavas sampradayas (Rudra, Madhva, Kumara, Sri/Ramanuja) on these verses and I could not find anything on 'material world is a perverted reflection. The only one I have read where this is found is in a Bhaktivedanta Swami purport on the 1st verse of this chapter, quoted above. So, I am curious if this is a comment from him alone, or it is a common phrase in the GV Tradition.

[meeno8]

I have reflected on that cosmic tree in recent years. In family trees, one only has to go back several generations and it gets all intertwined with great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-...-grandparents. If we are of European ancestry we are all descendents of Emperor Charlemagne. Food for thought, or should I say water and sun? We keep 2 Venus flytraps in the house, so no need for violence with a fly swatter.  But I digress...

[Nitaidas]

I don't see anything in the CV commentaries on that first verse that suggests that the inverted asvattha tree represents a perverted world. Rather, it seems to say that the world (the tree) is rooted in the divine. Its leaves are the Vedas. I suspect Bhaktivedanta just made that perverted world idea up or perhaps his guru did. I don't know any other places in CV literature where such a claim is made. I could be wrong, since I have not read absolutely everything. On the other hand, that the world is the body of the lord (purusa) is as old as the Rg Veda (10.90). How could it be perverted? Our vision of it may be perverted, but not the thing itself. I sit here surrounded by the bones of Purusa and his bodily hair (the trees and plants), his blood (the lakes and streams). I just need to retrain myself to see him everywhere. That is part of what sadhana and svadhyaya is about, transforming our perverted vision into yathartha-darsana, seeing things as they truly are.