which is higher

[Ldd]

Here's a tricky topic for the esteemed pondits on board: We heard from Veda that everything comes from sound. The original OM.. so it was designed that we chant OM to connect to source. Nowadays we do "krishna" and his mantra for same effect. I heard Maharaji say that you can achieve anything by the word [supposed to be non differnt from the item it represents] and that what chanting Hari's name is about.

My thinking on that is you ALSO have to fix on leela. Saying the word alone or singing Harinam will not reveal attributes and seva of Him. Long ago people didnt have manuscripts so they kept sadhu sanga to hear the leela from those who knew it, thus sadhu sanga was imp. But now we have books.

By the way as far as chanting one round as some of us are touting, that's a minimum - more should be done when possible. [Maharaji said we are doing it for seva, not fix focus like in meditation practice] that probably means you will get better with time and dont worry so much about getting it perfect. I saw some of our babas with the beadbag stuck to hands always chanting. Some dont - it depends on what they have to do, it's ok.

However what I want to know here is : Is Krishna higher or his Name higher? Devotees say the Name is the same as Krishna. So we are chanting Name to achieve Him, then He is higher ? or is His seva the highest? Pls answer according to our gaudiya conclusions

BTW I heard from one of our devotees in Delhi yesterday and he said the COVID was under control. I never trust media totally, I pray that all devotees here and India remain protected.

[jiva]

Apr 29, 2021 8:34:55 GMT -6 Ldd said:

BTW I heard from one of our devotees in Delhi yesterday and he said the COVID was under control. I never trust media totally, I pray that all devotees here and India remain protected.

 I'm glad to hear that. 

[madanmohandas]

If I may presume to interject, what comes to mind is Rupa's verse six in Namastaka

O name divine! your nature is two-fold;
That which is signified, and the word told.
And there is no distinction twixt the two,
Yet of the latter we may know it true,
A more abundant mercy has been shown;
Since by the word a creature can atone
For heaps of sins in endless multitude,
And plunge in the sea of beatitude.

Just going out now, but later I will add the Sanskrit sloka.

[Ldd]

Apr 29, 2021 23:37:49 GMT -6 madanmohandas said:

If I may presume to interject, what comes to mind is Rupa's verse six in Namastaka

O name divine! your nature is two-fold;
That which is signified, and the word told.
And there is no distinction twixt the two,
Yet of the latter we may know it true,
A more abundant mercy has been shown;
Since by the word a creature can atone
For heaps of sins in endless multitude,
And plunge in the sea of beatitude.

Just going out now, but later I will add the Sanskrit sloka.

I get where you going with that and I'm ok with it. BTW I like the verse way of talking, it's suppose to be that way.

[Ldd]

One pondit hath answered the challenge. The others went out to pick Jamoon.

[madanmohandas]

I don't know if anyone is familiar with Tulsi Das' Rama Carita Manasa, but there is a long description there of how and why Rama's name exceeds Rama himself. Of course one might take it as rhetorical hyperbole, but that may be deemed nama aparadha, 'artha-vad'. Which is interpreted as considering the glorification, however extravagant, of Hari's name, to be mere hyperbole.

Here is the original Namastaka 6

vaacyam vaacakam ityudeti bhavato naama svarupadvayam
purvasmaat parameva hanta karunam tatraapi jaanimahe/
yastasmin vihitaaparaadhanivahah praani samantaad bhaved-
aasyenedam upaasya so'pi hi sadaanandaambudhau majjati//

[meeno8]

COVID-19 is far from under control in India. It is undergoing a very dangerous surge, and is probably the worst hot spot globally.

[Ldd]

Maybe they have a bad strain of vaccine in India - they sent away their good vaccine and helped the world when they had their crisis and now people are dying from Indian vaccine. Now no one knows what the truth is. There is also patents on vaccines made in the west so that it cannot be replicated anywere as part of global manipulation. Things are really unknowable. Many people are normal, but a friend of mine said all her family in Delhi got infected but recovered. Politics had a good part to frightening the people but the people are crazy too.
Meanwhile this country did not close borders to India till a few days ago. They waited a month for people to pour in, and illegal immigrantion which is rampant here won't help. My relatives had to have dozens of vaccines to get legal residence. Wherever there is unregulated immigration viruses will soar.

[Ldd]

Covid thoughts: They are bringing business into every core of the holy sites of India ie they worship money as God and turned the place into a mess. Everything is commercialised, even bhajan singing maybe the real gods are vexed with India. The country producing all the techies and doctors and can't help themselves. The amt of people following sadhu life as per tradition is so small you cant find them. The nag sadhus are getting the new most initiates but they are in the mode of ignorance. I feel the West would also get it's share but it wont be so dreadful, I dont see a green light for a while, the people are not interested in God. The ones who are chanting are worshipping cult gurus - so it would take them hundreds of births to come around.

Even the Indian vaishnavas aare getting taken in by Iskcon. They are not reading the books of their tradition and sharing them. Madhawah brahmins are converting over and worshipping false guru like Radhanath. Radhanath, Bhiuma and Gopal K have a thirteen year lawsuit against the deity Radha Damodar Thakur (postponed 50 times with the hope of winning) Nirmal Goswami of that temple was a friend of Prabhupad allowed them to worship a murti of Prab there forever and he himself ended up wearing orange. Sellout is not good, but sometime you can't help when the bad wolf is on the prowl. We need to keep giving steady knowledge and guidance - like Nitai did for us.

[service to Radha's feet]

Sacred love for Sri Krishna is the highest. Of the highest type of sacred love for Sri Krishna, love in the mood of the Gopis of Vrindavan is the highest. The highest sacred love that Sri Gauranga bestows on the jivas is that prema for Sri Radha and Sri Krishna in the mood of a maidservant with preference for Radha over Krishna.

To attain Krishna without desire for seva, like a yogi in shanta or Paramatma meditation, or attaining Krishna in the Vaikuntha dham as an attendant is not very high in comparison to raganuga bhakti which bestows the bhava and eternal form of a Vrajavasi.

Sri Rupa Goswami writes in Bhaktirasamrta-sindhu that the holy name of Krishna is like chintamani. As we chant, the heart becomes cleansed and will bestow upon the chanter the grace of the Name/Krishna. But chanting must be done with love in order for the high grace to descend. That 'love' does not necessarily mean the divine sacred love of prema (which is the goal), but with some eagerness and absorption such as desiring darshan of Radha and Krishna as we call upon Hari, Krishna, Radha and Radharaman within the maha mantra; desiring their seva as a maidservant; remembering the astakaliya lila and thinking oneself as gopi and mentally serving Them. This absorption in chanting the holy name is full kirtan, or sankirtan of the holy name.

There was one Baba of Vraja whose name was Radha Baba. He was considered a siddha. He said that we should desire to want Radha and Krishna seva. And if we do not sincerely want it, we should desire it anyway, because it will become sincere as we do bhajan. This is the same idea of the Name being like chintamani. By chanting and practicing keeping the proper aspirations and thoughts as we chant, slowly but surely, the grace will infuse the heart and mind.