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Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Sept 12, 2020 8:50:25 GMT -6
Radhe Radhe!
I'm reading Nitai Dada's essay "Time Enough For Play" in the book 'Gifts of Sacred Wonder' and some questions came up. For those not in madhurya rasa, are they limited to the regular (naityaka) lilas that applies to madhurya, since that is apparently the only naityaka lila? In Goloka (naityaka lila) do Nanda Baba and Yasoda Ma have experience of Krishna's childhood lila, even though it had never happened there? Do the gopas recall the adventures with the demons?
I know these are technicalities and not necessarily important for an aspirant of madhurya, but I wanted to ask.
Jai Sri Radhe!
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Post by meeno8 on Sept 12, 2020 9:22:24 GMT -6
I think those are very good questions.
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Post by Nitaidas on Sept 12, 2020 15:34:44 GMT -6
Radhe Radhe! I'm reading Nitai Dada's essay "Time Enough For Play" in the book 'Gifts of Sacred Wonder' and some questions came up. For those not in madhurya rasa, are they limited to the regular (naityaka) lilas that applies to madhurya, since that is apparently the only naityaka lila? In Goloka (naityaka lila) do Nanda Baba and Yasoda Ma have experience of Krishna's childhood lila, even though it had never happened there? Do the gopas recall the adventures with the demons? I know these are technicalities and not necessarily important for an aspirant of madhurya, but I wanted to ask. Jai Sri Radhe! राधे राधे! Good questions, Nilamadhavadasji. These things have been on my mind of late. I think it is a mistake to take these smarana texts too literally. They are essentially texts for meditation and visualization while we are here in this world. They are mental aids to help us who are alive cultivate Krsna-prema. I don't think they should be taken as descriptions of what our lives after death will be like if we are successful in cultivating Krsna-prema. What our existences will be like after departing from this world is way beyond our abilities to comprehend. We are like fish in a pond trying to imagine what it is like to live on land. The important thing is to use the practices to try to develop Krsna prema before our lives end and we are rushed off to our next lives. The practice of smarana is very difficult and can only be fully embraced by those who have no other duties or responsibilities. The alternate path is to simply immerse oneself in the holy names and let the lila appear on its own in its own time. As for those who have different relationships with Radha and Krsna their cultivation is different from the one given by Rupa or Kavikarnapura, Krsnadas Kaviraja, or Visvanatha Cakravartin. In CV we don't have any comparable mode of manasa-seva for those in Vatsalya, which by the way is still very much madhurya as opposed to aisvarya. Other traditions like that of the Vallabha tradition have a strong Vatsalya leaning and probably have methods or texts that assist in the cultivation of that relationship. The lila they envision will focus on ways parents or elders can serve and express their love for child Krsna with no or little presence of the erotic dimensions of Krsna's lila with the gopis. There is a relatively strong avenue in CV for the cultivation of the relationship of friendship. I have known several members of our tradition who were cultivating this relationship with Krsna. There are some texts for that as well. One such text was written by Vanamalidas Sastri who was a great scholar of Sanskrit. He did the finest editions of the Gopala-campu and the Ananda-vrndavana Campu in Devanagari with Hindi translation. I met him at the Krsna Balarama temple when he came to visit Bhaktivedanta. We spoke only in Sanskrit, him fluently and me haltingly. He was a beautiful person and a disciple of Pranagopal Goswami. It seems to me that all the friendship bhaktas can be traced back to the lineage of Pranagopal Goswami. As for what happens in Goloka, you are asking the wrong person, baba. As I said before it is far beyond our ken. Anyway, as the Buddha said: these are not questions that tend to edification. राधे श्याम गौर ! |
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Post by malati on Sept 12, 2020 23:48:27 GMT -6
Radhe Radhe
Just my 2 cents. These are my answers as I apply what I understand about the tradition.
NMD" "I'm reading Nitai Dada's essay "Time Enough For Play" in the book 'Gifts of Sacred Wonder' and some questions came up. For those not in madhurya rasa, are they limited to the regular (naityaka) lilas that applies to madhurya, since that is apparently the only naityaka lila?"
In our line at initiation as I've mentioned before, we are given insight into our eternal swarup and duties and of course you are at liberty to broaden it using the insights given to you as a benchmark, if I can use that term.
In the trad line we are allowed to read Govinda Lilamrta and Krishna Bhavanamrta, aside from the lilas that we recite as part of a regular bhajan, by reading them you are in effect realizing other dimensions of the lilas.
NMD: "In Goloka (naityaka lila) do Nanda Baba and Yasoda Ma have experience of Krishna's childhood lila, even though it had never happened there? Do the gopas recall the adventures with the demons?"
I'm putting my answer into context. If Goloka is the planet where Krishna performs his sweetest pastimes and that Goloka can be considered the absolute abode of Krishna, then maybe Yashoda ma and Nanda baba are interacting with Krishna in his absolute form which I think is that of a young man, a stage where he cavorts with Radha and the gopis.
Re the question re gopas. I'm sure the gopas have perfect memory but why would they think about the demons when they are so engrossed with playing with Krishna and enjoying the scenic settings in Goloka, where lakes are described in shastras as shimmering like diamonds.
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Post by madanmohandas on Sept 13, 2020 1:17:53 GMT -6
If I may also add, the question raised by Nilamadhava seems to have been the justification for the composition of Gopala Champu, if justification is the right word, perhaps to vindicate, or at least Jiva is proposing to reconcile that very question, ie 'Do the cowherds have recollection of the demon slaying exploits of Krishna in eviternal Goloka? But what do I know, a mere fish, of the dry land? hehehehe
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Post by malati on Sept 13, 2020 1:32:34 GMT -6
What about we say that in Goloka everything is sweetness and if the cowherds are to recollect the slaying of the demons , (an aisvarya thought) then they must be doing it in a parallel universe. I remember reading somewhere not sure if its from a blog that says the past times of Krishna and his associates are simultaneously happening in other planets or universes??? meant for certain categories of past times.
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Post by madanmohandas on Sept 13, 2020 2:49:02 GMT -6
Was just reading and came to this,
prokteyam viharaavasthaa spastha-lilaanusaaratah/
krsnena viprayogah syaan-na jaatu vrajavaasinaam//
The states of separation herein told
Pertain to those exploits that here unfold;
The cowherd people never undergo
Such pain, and Krishna's absence never know.
Bh.R.S. 3.3.128
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Post by madanmohandas on Sept 13, 2020 4:07:33 GMT -6
In support of the above, he cites a verse from Skanda Purana, Mathura Khanda.
vatsair vatsataribhis ca sadaa kridati maadhavah/
vrndaavanaantara gatah sa-raamo baalakair vrtah/
Within the confines of Vrindavan stays
Madhava; tending cows and calves he plays;
And his perpetual exploits there enjoys
With Rama and a host of cowherd boys.
3.3.129
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