Contagious or not?

[kingcobra]

Most forms of madness are not actually contagious, although they can be inherited from one generation to the next. The madness known as mAdhurya rasa appears to be extremely contagious. Apparently all it takes is to be around some rasikas and copy their behavior, and a person is likely to come down with the fever known as prema. There is no known cure, and controlling the symptoms can be difficult. This form of madness can easily be confused with other disorders such as bipolar manic depression or even schizophrenia. Laughing and crying without apparent cause and speaking to people that are not there are some of the more severe symptoms of the disorder. Fortunately, according to the CDC in Atlanta, there have been few cases reported in the US, and even globally. Some researchers have speculated that the cause may be some type of food poisoning that affects the brain, but no link to mad cow disease has been found yet.

[Deleted]

Cool, snakeman, cool... Have you gone mad with that rasa fever then?

[JD33]

This is a good thread, but it did not continue.... any takers?

[108108]

i love these kind of threads too.

[Nityānanda dāsa]

Radhe Radhe!

Thanks for bringing this thread back from the dead. There are a lot of threads that need rebirth. Here's my crack at this one...

I loved the jest of this initial post. Something serious, yet humorous. However, the way it is registering with me is this. I have seen people "copying" or imitating this madness. And it is done for nefarious reasons - name, fame, profit, adoration, distinction, etc. I don't think it is meant to be copied. Rather, if we follow the texts and teachings behind this madness, that is the key to getting the 'disease'. Not copying or imitating. The fact is that a true bhakta won't be displaying such symptoms of madness publicly. This will happen in private and/or if the person truly can't help it. But if it's done in front of a big audience (or even a very little audience), but appears to be planned, forced, acted out, etc., one can know that such a person is a pretender and should be rejected. Their sanga is contaminating and should be avoided.
I apologize for taking this topic down 'that' road, but this is truly where it hits me. And I believe I'm still on topic in saying this. By all means if someone else would like to take this topic in a more positive direction, please do so.

[108108]

how is the person supposed to know the flavour of the emotion happening. If it is regular material emotion, some bout of mental illness, or one of the spiritual levels of emotion

whether to cultivate it, or not, and how

[meeno8]

"The fact is that a true bhakta won't be displaying such symptoms of madness publicly."

Looks like you may be regurgitating some IGM false propaganda.

Krishnacharan Das Babaji did display sattvika-vikaras publicly during lectures, and he was widely respected in the CV community in Braj and West Bengal. That was the main reason Jagannath Das took diksha from him.

[Nityānanda dāsa]

Minaketan Ram Dadaji,

Radhe Radhe!

I'm not saying it as an absolute. I've seen some videos of say for example, Sri Jiva Goswami (not of the six gosvamins, but a more recent one in the Nityananda parivar who passed away somewhat recently) got into the zone while in kirtan and did some nice dramatic dancing around while leading kirtan. It was very sweet. So I'm not saying it as an absolute, i.e., that it never happens and if it does the person must be faking it.
What I am saying however, is that I have seen many people faking it. And I find it off putting to say the least. So if we see this display, then we must know how to decipher if the person is legit or not. Safe to say that pretty much anyone in IGM making these displays is faking it.

[meeno8]

Thanks for the clarification. I am not sure if 'deciphering' the legitimacy is in fact realistic. The maha mantra is very powerful, as we all recognize. Even without actual diksha, one can cultivate prema, although that may be few and far between. My opinion is not to focus on what others are doing in public, rather staying occupied with one's own sadhana.

[meeno8]

In one sense you could consider IGM as having hijacked a tradition. In another sense you could consider them as splintering off and creating a totally separate tradition. I would have to consider the latter more the case than the former. Yes, to the general public that does not know any better, IGM is the face of CV, or Gaudiya Vaishnavism. However, to all of the people that know better they are not any more than they are the face of Mahayana Buddhism or Tibetan Buddhism.

[JD33]

Jan 11, 2021 9:48:31 GMT -6 108108 said:

how is the person supposed to know the flavour of the emotion happening. If it is regular material emotion, some bout of mental illness, or one of the spiritual levels of emotion

whether to cultivate it, or not, and how

Nitai-Gaur, Radhey-Shyam; Hare Krsna, Hare Ram.

Dis-regard where any emotion comes from within ourselves, knowing that it is purifying itself as we do Harinam Bhajan. Suffering comes up at times as the Holy Names purify our negative Karmas. The best way is detachment and keep doing the sadhana to breakthrough it all and realize the absolute Divine Illumination of GN/ RK and their Holy Names, etc. Reach out to qualified Bhaktas if one can, they will hold you and support you while one is covered over by negative content.

Prayer is one way to start discerning: Bhagavan, kindly purify my vision and heart so I can love you all the time.

Thus also, as meeno and other have suggested - it only matters to us if we are searching for appropriate sangha and or Guru to receive Holy Diksa from.

Otherwise, for many reasons it is not our job or interest to judge others in any way. One of the important things I learned in India is not to judge, criticize or otherwise be involved with anyone, unless you are sure of their qualities and attainment. And to remember why we are here, is to cultivate the sadhu qualities first and later the qualities of Golok-Vraja-vasis according to our disposition.

On the inside, we keep and give our quality loving attention onto the Divine Couple (Yugal Kishor) and the Holy Names, Qualities and Lilas thereof as one is aligned to do.

Make GN/RK and their genuine bhaktas happy and you will be blessed. How to please them? Quality Bhajan Sadhana. Humble inquiry. Devotion.

Hope this helps. Give up confusion, rather than indulge in it. Trust GN/ RK and the Holy Names to get you through anything and everything.

[jiva]

Jan 24, 2021 15:10:47 GMT -6 JD33 said:

One of the important things I learned in India is not to judge, criticize or otherwise be involved with anyone....

I agree.

On the wall, inside the Vinod baba Maharaja's asrama, a certain baba (follower of Vinod baba Maharaja) also has a photo of Svami Bhaktivedanta. So...

[malati]

Interesting, I've just read something about this topic a few days ago. In his commentary on Srila Visvanath's commentary on Narottama das Thakur's Sri Sri Prema Bhakati Chandrika, Sri Ananta Das Pandit says, that Srila Visvanath says, "keep your surging love hidden within your heart". That one should not show the "8 sattvika symptoms of prema, like tears, goosebumps, rolling on the ground, etc in the assembly of non-devotees". Further he says, as it is, when one shows symptoms of sattvika, of prema, in the assembly of the wise and good devotees, there is a diminution of humility, and fame and distinction will arise because everyone will say 'he's a great loving devotee". When the most powerful prema is compressed within the heart,it will forcefully push the body engine of the devotee, swiftly to arrive at the lotus feet of his beloved deity.

Sri Sri Prema Chandrika v. 68 " The lamp of prema illuminates the abodes of the hearts of the rasika hero and rasika heroine in a motionless way. But if it comes out through the gate of the mouth it will either be swiftly extinguised or dimmed". Meaning, prema will become diminished when externally revealed.

My guru, Sri Sadhu Baba once said that we should not do japa in public. And I recall devotees saying that they chant on their beads while driving!

If I remember correctly what I read a month ago in SSPBC, I think it was Sri Visvanath who said (it's a bit confusing because Sri Ananta das pandit was commenting on Sri Visvanath's commentary on Narottama das Thakur's verses) that when chanting on beads, GV devotees should do it like meditating on the namas, saying them softly, like in whispers, so that only the self can hear them.

[JD33]

Jan 11, 2021 15:54:26 GMT -6 Nityānanda dāsa said:

Minaketan Ram Dadaji,

Radhe Radhe!

I'm not saying it as an absolute. I've seen some videos of say for example, Sri Jiva Goswami (not of the six gosvamins, but a more recent one in the Nityananda parivar who passed away somewhat recently) got into the zone while in kirtan and did some nice dramatic dancing around while leading kirtan. It was very sweet. So I'm not saying it as an absolute, i.e., that it never happens and if it does the person must be faking it.
What I am saying however, is that I have seen many people faking it. And I find it off putting to say the least. So if we see this display, then we must know how to decipher if the person is legit or not. Safe to say that pretty much anyone in IGM making these displays is faking it.

Nitai-Gaur, Radhey-Shyam; Hare Krsna, Hare Ram.
The Vaisnav quality would be to give pranam to such a person for doing Bhajan and let any negative emotional reaction be dissolved in that humble action. And then if a thought comes up about it - pranam again mentally and go on with one's own personal Bhajan.

Within the company of Vaishnavas it is difficult to restrain one's self as Bhagavat prem is flowing everywhere, thus it comes and one just humbles oneself and makes it hidden as one can without stopping its offering to Thakur (Thakur here means: Guru, Bhagavan, Vaishnav and Dham). BTW: a secret is that when Sattvic Vichar happens, arises, is experienced, it is accompanied by humility - intrinsically - which I think is the way to discern it is the real thing within oneself...... will we ever really know it is or is not happening to any specific person... How? Not by our judgments produced by faulty past experiences and learnings, inculturation...?

In the old days there was a sadhu concences about who the attained sadhus were, now not so much so.

Ps: BTW: the video was Srijiv Gosvami Prabhupada's younger brother, saint in his own right.

Radha Krsna Prem Hok !

[Jagannāth Miśra Dās]

Jan 11, 2021 5:59:10 GMT -6 Nityānanda dāsa said:

Radhe Radhe!

Thanks for bringing this thread back from the dead. There are a lot of threads that need rebirth. Here's my crack at this one...

I loved the jest of this initial post. Something serious, yet humorous. However, the way it is registering with me is this. I have seen people "copying" or imitating this madness. And it is done for nefarious reasons - name, fame, profit, adoration, distinction, etc. I don't think it is meant to be copied. Rather, if we follow the texts and teachings behind this madness, that is the key to getting the 'disease'. Not copying or imitating. The fact is that a true bhakta won't be displaying such symptoms of madness publicly. This will happen in private and/or if the person truly can't help it. But if it's done in front of a big audience (or even a very little audience), but appears to be planned, forced, acted out, etc., one can know that such a person is a pretender and should be rejected. Their sanga is contaminating and should be avoided.
I apologize for taking this topic down 'that' road, but this is truly where it hits me. And I believe I'm still on topic in saying this. By all means if someone else would like to take this topic in a more positive direction, please do so.

The fact is that a true bhakta won't be displaying such symptoms of madness publicly.....not true my friend. Mahāprabhu and all his followers displayed the entire host of divine madness in public, and never made any effert to disguise it. Even the guruāstakam says " romanca kampa asru taranga bhajo" and in the siksastakam Gaurāṅga prays for that day when his eyes will be decorated with tears, voice chocked up etc.