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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 2, 2019 21:03:45 GMT -6
How is everyone doing? Have we learned the two previous verses? Perhaps we should have sound files here as well, so that learners can listen to the verses being chanted. Anyone have a sound file to add? I will try to make one of my own to put up, too. Anyway, here is the next verse. Lets do a few more individual verses and then we will start on the Namastaka. How does that sound? The next verse is a doozy, the core of our shared understanding of Mahaprabhu in his five manifestations. I think I have found a way to do it in three forms: Devanagari, Bengali, and interlinear as Madanmohan suggested. Here goes: Will this work? Or is it too small? Clicking on it enlarges it some. I can make the original larger. Here is the translit and interlinear, if this helps: pañcatattvātmakaṃ kṛṣṇaṃ
bhaktarūpasvarūpakam |
bhaktāvatāraṃ bhaktākhyaṃ
namāmi bhaktaśaktikam ||
pañcatattvātmakaṃ kṛṣṇaṃ
Kṛṣṇa who is five truths:
bhaktarūpa-svarūpakam|
the form of the bhakta, the bhakta's essence
bhaktāvatāraṃ bhaktākhyaṃ
the descent of the bhakta, the bhakta
namāmi bhaktaśaktikam||
the power of the bhakta, to him I bow.I think some commentary is needed for this one. Any commentators? (Cc. 1.1.14, 1.7.2) |
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Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Oct 3, 2019 7:30:38 GMT -6
How is everyone doing? Have we learned the two previous verses? Perhaps we should have sound files here as well, so that learners can listen to the verses being chanted. Anyone have a sound file to add? I will try to make one of my own to put up, too. Jai Radhe! I'm doing well. How are you! If you want I can record and upload sound files or try at least. Not that I'm a great orator, but I can give it a shot if y'all want me to. |
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 3, 2019 10:20:30 GMT -6
How is everyone doing? Have we learned the two previous verses? Perhaps we should have sound files here as well, so that learners can listen to the verses being chanted. Anyone have a sound file to add? I will try to make one of my own to put up, too. Jai Radhe! I'm doing well. How are you! If you want I can record and upload sound files or try at least. Not that I'm a great orator, but I can give it a shot if y'all want me to. Oratory is not what I had in mind. I was thinking that these verses that are for memorization should be pronounced or chanted so that they are memorized with the proper pronunciation. There is nothing worse than reciting a Sanskrit verse and having it sound like it is in Japanese. One sometimes hears this sort of thing at professional conferences on South Asian religion or culture, especially in lectures by Westerners. Along with memorizing one should learn to pronounce it properly. |
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 3, 2019 17:40:53 GMT -6
Here is a sample sound file. First attempt. Let us see how it works. vancha.mp3 (459.08 KB) Sorry. It seems a bit loud. Turn down your volumes. namo-mahavadanyaya.ogg (340.91 KB) Pancatattvatmakam.ogg (379.1 KB) This latest verse has a detailed commentary in Radhagovinda Nath's edition of the Cc and in Prangopal Goswami's edition. I will give some details from it in the next few days. |
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Post by Ed on Oct 4, 2019 13:37:26 GMT -6
Sounds like a plan, Nitai, and the file looks good too, I like the interlinear translation a lot. Thank you very much for those audio files, I think they should be a fixed feature for this thread, maybe I’ll try to upload an attempt at some point. On the other hand, this is a hard one to comment on, I’m really glad you have those commentaries at hand. But anyway, I’ll write down a few things, hopefully others will contribute as well:
I think this verse first appeared in Kavi Karnapura’s Gaura-ganodesa-dipika. He says it was spoken by Svarup Damodara, and gives the identities as:
Bhakta rupa: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu
Bhakta Svarupa: Nityananda Prabhu
Bhakta Avatara: Advaita Prabhu
Bhakta: Srivas Pandit
Bhakta Sakti: Gadadhara Pandit
Krsnadas Kaviraj Goswami follows Kavi’s explanation saying that: pañca-tattva — eka-vastu, nāhi kichu bheda, meaning that this five are to be considered as one, and rasa āsvādite tabu vividha vibheda, that differences are for the sake of delighting in rasa.
This is the way I’ve (kinda) understood it so far: this is the nature of Krsna numbered in five - his own self, his essence of loving service, his compassionate nature towards the living beings, the living beings themselves who are part of him, and his intrinsic power or potency which is the source of all variety and joy. These aspects of his nature appeared as separate persons again in Bengal for the fulfilment of lila, to establish the yuga-dharma and to take part of, as well as to complement and increase, his delight in rasa.
Another way to express this is with the use of the categories Internal and Marginal. The Internal are all the direct and indirect manifestations of himself, as well as his essential power to experience and infuse pleasure. These are beyond worldly experience and therefore said to be eternally existing as his essential nature. The Marginal aspect is comprised of those infinite manifestations of his otherness: us, individual conscious beings who are by nature distinct from him but dependent on his existence. Through contact with Bhakti we attain identity with the Internal and become participants of his essential nature as well. Those who have attained this are counted as pure bhaktas, and in Caitanya-lila Srivas was their head. The essential power to experience and produce pleasure was manifested as Gadadhara and his companions. The source of this essential power is Radhika. Nityananda is Gaurahari’s svarupa (vaibhava prakasa?) and Advaita is that same Hari eternally existing as Maha-visnu, the first of the Purusa Avatars (as well as Sadasiva). This difference in tattva translates into a difference in practical worship, and Kaviraj Goswami gives a hint on how they are to be seen as different:
Caitanya, who is Krsna in bhakta-bhāva, is the Great Master. Nityananda and Advaitacandra are the Masters who serve at his feet, these three are the sarvārādhya, they are to be worshiped by all. The fourth is known as ārādhaka, or the one who worships, these are many, starting with Srivas Thakur, and are all considered pure (śuddha). Gadadhara’s own are all śakti-avatāra, they are considered to be the intimate ones (antaraṅga).
I'll stop here. All of this doesn’t make the verse any less mysterious to me, to be honest. It would be nice to get the input from the other members on this verse to see how they understand it. In any case, I'm excited to be able to read something from the commentaries of both Radhagovinda Nath and Prangopal Goswami.
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jiva
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Post by jiva on Oct 5, 2019 0:43:43 GMT -6
With these verses that said Nitai, I daily recite well-known the following two:
he kṛṣṇa karuṇā-sindho dīna-bandho jagat-pate
gopeśa gopikā-kānta rādhā-kānta namo 'stu te
and
tapta-kāñcana-gaurāńgi rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari
vṛṣabhānu-sute devī praṇamāmi hari-priye
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 5, 2019 0:47:36 GMT -6
With these verses that said Nitai, I daily recite well-known the following two: he kṛṣṇa karuṇā-sindho dīna-bandho jagat-pate
gopeśa gopikā-kānta rādhā-kānta namo 'stu teand tapta-kāñcana-gaurāńgi rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari
vṛṣabhānu-sute devī praṇamāmi hari-priyeYes. Those are great verses. I was going to add those next and one more and then let's turn to the Namastaka of Rupa Goswami, the Sikastaka of Mahaprabhu and the Manahsiksa of Raghunatha Das Goswami. |
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 6, 2019 11:06:15 GMT -6
Good commentary, Ed. It is very similar to what Radhagovinda Nath has to say. I will post that in a few days. Until then, let's hear some chanting. Don't be shy. It would be great to hear your chanting of the verse and, for that matter, the chanting of all the others who are following this thread. The more the merrier!
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Post by Ed on Oct 8, 2019 21:28:11 GMT -6
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 8, 2019 21:33:21 GMT -6
Excellent, Ed. You pronounce Sanskrit very well. You have nothing to be shy about. |
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Post by Ed on Oct 8, 2019 21:41:31 GMT -6
Thanks, Nitai, very kind of you, I think Spanish helps. Also, a note that I forgot to add about a verse that is commonly associated with this one: कृष्णवर्णं त्विषाकृष्णं साङ्गोपाङ्गास्त्रपार्षदम् । यज्ञै: सङ्कीर्तनप्रायैर्यजन्ति हि सुमेधस: ॥ ३२ ॥ kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (BhP 11.5.32) It is the one interpreted as an anticipation of Mahaprabhu’s advent, and according to S.K. De the Goswamis:   |
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jiva
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Post by jiva on Oct 9, 2019 6:43:51 GMT -6
I'd like to check my pronunciation, but I don't have a microphone on my PC.
Also, I own an old cell-phone model.
Even if I could, I wouldn't know how to put the audio here. mūrkha tumi 
(mūrkha tumi , tomāra nāhika vedāntādhikāra
‘kṛṣṇa-mantra’ japa sadā,—ei mantra-sāra Cc Adi.7.72 )
Anyway, what is important is that listening to you, I can correct my mistakes. Thank you for that.
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Post by Ed on Oct 9, 2019 7:48:28 GMT -6
I'd like to check my pronunciation, but I don't have a microphone on my PC.
Also, I own an old cell-phone model.
Even if I could, I wouldn't know how to put the audio here. mūrkha tumi
(mūrkha tumi , tomāra nāhika vedāntādhikāra
‘kṛṣṇa-mantra’ japa sadā,—ei mantra-sāra Cc Adi.7.72 )
Anyway, what is important is that listening to you, I can correct my mistakes. Thank you for that.
Hi, Jiva, if you have access to WhatsApp you could send them to me as voice notes and I could upload them here if you'd like. |
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jiva
Full Member
Posts: 142
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Post by jiva on Oct 9, 2019 9:46:55 GMT -6
Hi, Ed,
Unfortunately - I don't.
However, thanks to the kind offer.
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Post by Nitaidas on Oct 14, 2019 11:13:51 GMT -6
As promised, here is some of Radhagovinda Nath's commentary on the pancatattvatmakam krsnam verse.
Just as Kṛṣṇacandra descended previously in the form of five
principles, now Kṛṣṇacaitanya, too, has manifested five similar
principles. That is shown in this verse ({\it Gaura-gaṇoddeśa-dīpikā}, 6):
\begin{verse}
{\it yadvatpurā kṛṣṇacandraḥ pañcatattātmako'pi san|\\
yātaḥ prakaṭatāṃ tadvad gauraḥ prakaṭatāmiyāt||}\\
Just as previously Kṛṣṇacandra,
though consisting of five principles,
became manifest in the world,
like that does Gaura become manifest.
\end{verse}
The supreme lord himself, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, apart from in his own form, by
the influence of his own will-power ({\it icchā-śakti}) self-manifests
in four other forms. The other four forms are these: his playful form
({\it vilāsa}), his descent form ({\it avatāra}), his {\it bhakta}
form, and his power of the bhakta form ({\it śakti}). Even though these other four
forms are generally perceived as different from Śrī Kṛṣṇa in his
sport, essentially they are not different from him. In these four
forms are four principles and his own form is one principle. All
together there are a total of five principles—one root principle
manifest in five principles. In the sport of Navadvīpa, Śrī Kṛṣṇa,
the son of Nanda, the own or svayam form, is descended in the form of
Śrī Kṛṣṇacaitanya; since he has accepted the condition of the {\it
bhakta}, he is himself {\it bhakta-rūpa}. In Navadvīpa he is the root
principle. By his own will power he has manifested himself in the
four other forms. The other four principles are these: (1) the
essential form of the {\it bhakta} (the descent of Kṛṣṇa's playful
form)—Śrī Nityānanda, who in the previous sport was Baladeva; (2) the
descent of the {\it bhakta}—Śrī Advaita, who in the previous sport was
Śrī Sadāśiva; (3) the one simply called {\it bhakta}—Śrīvāsa and the
others; and (4) the power of the {\it bhakta}—Śrī Gadādhara.
\begin{verse}
{\it bhaktarūpo gauracandro yato'sau nandanandanaḥ|\\
bhaktasvarūpo nityānando vraje yaḥ śrīhalāyudhaḥ||\\
bhaktāvatāra ācāryo'dvaito yaḥ śrīsadāśivaḥ|\\
bhaktākhyaḥ śrīvāsādyā yataste bhaktarūpinaḥ||\\
bhaktiśaktidvijāgragaṇyaḥ śrīgadādharapaṇḍitaḥ|} ({\it
gauragaṇoddeśadīpikā}, 11)
\end{verse}
All the forms that the desirable object, Śrī Kṛṣṇacaitanya,
self-manifests in are in all ways praiseworthy as fully desirable.
Therefore, there is praise for the five forms. This verse is in the
category of auspicious verses ({\it maṅgalācaraṇa}) in the form of
praise for a desirable object.
Here you have it. Sorry for the markup, but you can figure out what they mean. Hint: \it=italics, etc.
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