|
|
Post by Ldd on Apr 6, 2021 9:42:53 GMT -6
On another thread here there is a link to a document with full details. Not able to download or reawd the "Theological Problems" |
|
|
|
Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Apr 9, 2021 6:00:56 GMT -6
Hi Ldd.
I just tried the link and it worked for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ldd on Apr 9, 2021 7:39:30 GMT -6
On another thread here there is a link to a document with full details. Thanks. Who wrote it ? |
|
|
|
Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Apr 10, 2021 2:30:20 GMT -6
I believe it was put together by Satyanarayan Babaji.
|
|
|
|
Post by avadhutadas on Feb 2, 2022 17:40:03 GMT -6
Jai Nitai! Jai Gauranga! I received an invite to this forum from Nityananda das. I have heard from several uptight Vaisnavas that Nitai das is a demon so I simply had to check it out.
Even though I was born in the 80's and not the 50's, I feel like my life parallels a lot of the people who were taken in by ACBV's ISKCON movement of the 60's and 70's. Ive been spiritually inclined for most of my life practicing various types of meditation and yoga, some that induced big changes to my perception of life. I've also done a fair amount of mind expanding drugs (not recently mind you) that have also added to my belief that there is more to being a human than eating, shitting and dying.
While I have read a lot of Eastern philosophy books, mostly by Alan Watts and the like, I didn't read the Bhagavad Gita until 3-4 years ago. It was a translation by Barbara Stoler Miller. I liked it a lot and began to research more about this Krishna fellow online. Of course my search results were inundated with ISKCON and ACBV links. I read some of his books and on the one hand really liked them. I thought the idea of god having a personality and pastimes was interesting and radical. Until then I had always felt that god was impersonal. (I still like reading mayavadi philosophy. I'm sorry!!) However the purports to these books were a little surprising and I quickly deduced that I had no interest in Varnashram dharma or preaching Krishna consciousness.
I came across a guru who is from the IGM line who was preaching almost exclusively about Nityananda Prabhu. He kind of reminds me of Gadahar Pran except he represses his sexual feelings towards Nitai. I liked the bhava this guru had towards Nityananda so I stuck with him for about a year. I learned so much about Nitai and to this day He remains my favorite character in the whole Gaudiya saga. I find His reckless abandonment for sharing love to be a very attractive quality. Anyway, as it happens in my life, I disappointed this Nitai guru by pointing out that none of the six goswamis nor BSST nor ACBV taught anything like what he was teaching. I was removed from the group and cursed to hell in the process.
After that I ran into an associate who told me about traditional Gaudiya vaisnavism. I've been learning about the traditional parivars, reading some books from the likes of Kapoor and Ananta das Babaji, and perusing the archives of Gaudiya discussions. I feel that I'm at a crossroads with CV. On the one hand I find Mahaprabhu, Nitai and the lila of Krishna to be very interesting. I dare say sometimes I feel a tinkling of emotion towards these personalities. On the other hand, I don't do well with institutions. In fact I abhor them. I also have a hard time with ten 10 offenses to the Holy Name. I'm sorry but sometimes the Vedas say ridiculous things, I'm not sure any gurus are purely transcendental, my powers of concentration are almost nil due to the internet, and some of the most insane people I have ever met claim to be Vaisnavas. So I find myself as an uninitiated practitioner who can't quite decide if it's worth the few thousand bucks to travel to India to be initiated by a traditional guru or not.
|
|
|
|
Post by meeno8 on Feb 6, 2022 15:22:57 GMT -6
Interesting bit of biographical history you have shared with the group. If we are demons to the hypocrites, then I would rather be one of those demons than another hypocrite. As the founder of this forum, Nitai Das, recently stated: CV is not really a religion with all of that negative baggage, but rather a mystical tradition. And there is a world of difference there.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Feb 8, 2022 7:40:41 GMT -6
Radhe Radhe! LOL! I think that avadhutadas was just making a joke about Bhaktivedanta. I thought it was pretty funny! We all know that Nitai Dada is not a demon! But certainly feel free to clarify Avaduta-ji! Nitai has already probably contributed more to genuine Chaitanya Vaishnavism than Bhaktivedanta did. Well, not that Bhaktivedanta made any contributions there actually. I guess the only thing BV did was to develop a separate religion that helped to point people in the direction of reality. |
|
|
|
Post by avadhutadas on Feb 8, 2022 10:25:16 GMT -6
Bhaktivedanta, Advaita das, other less known people. They like the pun “Neal DEMONico”. Btw, is it true that ACBV ended up apologizing to Nitai das?
ACBV did get many people to chant Mahamantra which is nice.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nitaidas on Feb 8, 2022 16:31:49 GMT -6
Bhaktivedanta, Advaita das, other less known people. They like the pun “Neal DEMONico”. Btw, is it true that ACBV ended up apologizing to Nitai das? ACBV did get many people to chant Mahamantra which is nice. Some of my students at Iowa State University used to call me that, too, when I was there. Actually, I was Professor Demonico to some. That is because I made the little fuckers do some work. If a book was on my reading list you had to read it and take regular quizzes on it. I am rather proud of that. There is nothing worse than lazy, privileged American students. I don't know if Bhaktivedanta ever called me that (I don't think he even knew my karmi name, to him I was Nitaidas. He gave me that name, unless it was one of his secretaries at the time. I used to select names for new initiates from the Visnu Sahasra Nama when I traveled with him), but I do know my leaving hurt him for a while. I hear that he eventually forgave me. Not that I needed forgiving. He was a Vaisnava aparadhi and had to be left behind. I don't know if I have quite forgiven him yet, however. Scripture says I should have killed him for his aparadha, but I spared his life and just put as much distance between me and his sicko followers as I could. I got my Mahamantra from Allen Ginsburg, a much purer source. He got it from real bhaktas in Kolkatta. Bhaktivedanta had nothing to do with it. |
|
jiva
Full Member
Posts: 143
|
Post by jiva on Feb 8, 2022 22:18:59 GMT -6
Some of my students at Iowa State University used to call me that, too, when I was there. Actually, I was Professor Demonico to some. That is because I made the little fuckers do some work.  |
|
|
|
Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Jun 7, 2022 8:07:54 GMT -6
Dear Meeno Dada,
I know that we all have our differences, but why post this here? Maybe we need a conflict resolution directory of the symposium. It sure seems that we do.
Frankly speaking (and I know that I am the junior here so please forgive me), I find that the conflicts in online forums are really distasteful. Conflict in and of itself isn't bad, but when people go back and forth taking pot shots at one another with their mutual insults, criticisms, justifications of why I'm better than you, why I'm right and you're wrong, frankly this is the kind of thing that people read and know that "Wow! These guys are just the same as everyone else. They claim to have an upper hand because of philosophy or diksa or whatever, but their behavior is the same. So do we see Bhakti really making an appearance here? ... "
Let me be the first to say that I have zero Bhakti. In fact, it's worse than that. I'm in the negative by a long long ways. Who am I to say who may have a step up when it comes to Bhakti. Obviously I'm clueless.
However, in terms of personal communications and disagreements, if it doesn't have to do directly with a point of Bhakti, or Chaitanya Vaishnavism, then why fight here? If you have a disagreement (Nitai and Meeno), why doesn't one of you call the other on the phone and work it out?
Anyway, I haven't even been keeping up with everything happening on the symposium. For all I know, you've found peace with one another and have made up.
This life is short. Let's be nice to each other and know that we're all different.
It's one thing if I'm trying to convert everyone to my point of view and perhaps trying to use Bhakti literature to justify my reasoning, like, "If you don't drink Starbucks coffee you're all certainly going to hell. I mean my God, it is all over our scriptures how important Starbucks and caffeine consumption is. I mean what are you all doing and seeing that you're not stocked up with Starbucks!!?? I mean didn't you know that before the Gita was spoken that Sri Krishna and Sri Arjuna were toked up on caffeine?! They hit the Starbucks up in Kurukshetra on their way to have the conversation that became the Gita!!! Etc. Etc." So yeah. That would warrant someone telling me that I'm off my rocker.
But if I express my opinion about what I'm doing in my life. Like that I will drink Starbucks, and that I like caffeine, then no foul done. Live and let live. What's the harm in that?
And if you know that I have made errors in the past --- and I have made and continue to make many --- then what's the need to dredge that in to the public forum to try to prove how big of an asshole I am (yes, I'm an asshole too)?
Peace!
Jai Sri Radhe!
|
|
|
|
Post by meeno8 on Jun 7, 2022 9:47:11 GMT -6
Point taken and post edited accordingly. The debates between myself and Nitai Mahashoy are not really about sniping at one another, at least from my perspective. They are just in the spirit of debate, and there definitely is one of a difference of opinion on consciousness surviving physical death.
You probably weren't around, or maybe you were, for the old VNN site run by IGM. There were some better posts there with people deriding each others' gurus and similar nastiness. Free speech was hardly tolerated there, and there was a lot of censorship.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Jun 7, 2022 13:16:09 GMT -6
I do remember VNN, as well as Sampradaya Sun, Gaudiya Discussions, Chakra, and the like. Thankfully this message board is still kicking. And hopefully will continue to do so.
I understand that there will always be banter between people that perhaps outsiders won't understand or will take the wrong way. Nothing wrong with that I suppose.
The spirit of debate needs to be encouraged! But I guess it's not always obvious whether something is being debated or whether people are trying to attack and defeat one another.
Clearly we're all going to have differing opinions on so many matters even within CV, what to speak of in contrast to the IGM folks. That being a given, can we all still keep a friendly respect for one another and our differing opinions? Or do we take the position that 'you're wrong and it's my job to correct your misunderstanding'? Seems to me that this latter approach never works.
I can force-feed IGMers the truth about Bhaktisiddhanta never receiving proper initiation, but where will that get me? It's a much different story when someone from IGM begins to understand that all is not well in Hare Krishna Disneyland (IMG) and begins to look beneath the surface, and perhaps if they're lucky they start to explore the roots of where IGM comes from. If someone is genuinely asking to learn about this issue (diksa) from a traditional source, then they are ripe to hear about it. Otherwise people just get defensive about their belief system(s).
Anyway, seems like we're straying from the thread here. So again, if you're reading this and are new to our Chaitanya Symposium, we all welcome you and hope that you will find some inspiration here that will assist in your journey to cultivate Prem Bhakti!
Jai Sri Radhe!
|
|
|
|
Post by meeno8 on Jun 7, 2022 20:21:35 GMT -6
Reminds me of a line from that Buffalo Springfield song from way back when: "Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong..." Does everyone have their own personal truth, or is there indeed absolute truth out there somewhere? I think it takes some scratching below the surface to investigate the latter, since one's own truth may not necessarily be absolute truth. Or maybe it can be, depending on what that truth is. Having productive debate perhaps can get to a deeper truth, if not an absolute truth. Should we without our limitations be dealing with absolutes in the first place? In thermodynamics, absolute zero is something theoretical, where all molecular activity stops, because temperature (and heat) are dependent on the degree of activity at the atomic level. The higher degree of activity, the hotter the temperature. I think that resembles the classic Zeno's paradoxes in ancient Greek philosophy. plato.stanford.edu/entries/paradox-zeno/ |
|
|
|
Post by meeno8 on Jun 8, 2022 10:35:20 GMT -6
There are not many Westerners that came to CV directly, considering most came via IGM, and there are some that came via Srivatsa Goswami's sponsoring Indian dance troupes in recent years, which he took to Europe and North America. I was originally initiated with a Buddhist mantra and a bija (without any gayatri) to use with a mudra. Most of us know George Harrison's role in drawing such a huge number of baby boomers in, and without that how many of us would have been drawn in?
Some that come in here can have the false impression that we are somehow vindictive, when in fact we are grateful to IGM for being a basically an important stepping stone for us, and we just have the goal of differentiating CV from IGM at all levels. I have posted this somewhere before: When I was discussing ISKCON with one of the babajis in 1980, he said, "We do not criticize other religions." Can the same be said in reverse? For the most part the answer to that would have to be a resounding negative. I was invited for prasad to a fellow grad student at University of Chicago at his apartment with his wife, who thought I should be avoiding all associtation with Nitai Das Ji, and he said he had heard from another person in the Sanskrit Department at BBT in LA how I had 'fallen into maya'. And he also said I was missing out on great 'preaching opportunities'. That was the end of the discussion. When I offered him a free newspaper from the paper route I had at the time, he acted like it was a venomous serpent. Haha? As Bill Maher often quips about people in the political spectrum that are ridiculous, "They're in the bubble, and nothing can get in." Hence one reason many people call out IGM as an insidious cult rather than a legitimate religious sect.
|
|
