Godmen, get some logic.

[maasikdharma]

Thank "god" raganuga bhakti does not require me to believe Krishna is god, otherwise I'd have to jump ship after watching this 12 part debacle;

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-8-Yxdphsg

[Nitaidas]

Thanks for this. This is fun to watch. Michael Shermer and Sam Harris are my heroes. Chopra is such a joke. Who is Jean Houston?

[maasikdharma]

Who is Jean Houston?

Some hippie-dippie left-wing, liberal, Earth Mother Goddess, that I was supposed to relate to and agree with just because she's a "woman" and so am I.

And did you notice that despite all her mumbo-jumbo, the men DARED not speak up to her (like they did with Deepak), because she's a woman and it would have been "politically incorrect" to do so?

That's just feminism gone bad.

They should have at least gotten an actual female scientist who simultaneously entertains the idea of a "higher power" to represent that side.

Why does "spirituality" always get represented by earthy-crunchy new-age kooks?

[Nitaidas]

I see. Yes, she didn't seem to contribute a whole lot to the discussion. Half the time I could not tell what she was trying to say. I notice she runs some sort of mystery institute. Seems quite a appropriate, when you think about it.

I did notice that she got shoved aside a few times when she wanted to speak by the male panelists, especially Sam. He could have been a bit more polite.

Anyway, I found myself laughing at a number of points. It was much more amusing than that strange debate between Hitchens, Harris, and Dennett and D'Sousa and pals with Robert Wright somewhere in between at LaCiudaddelasIdeas. One gets the impression the audience had no idea what was being said. Have you seen that one?

It is here:

[Ldd]

its true god doesnt exist. But we know that people here have interest in something called raganuga, where big sixty year old men think themselves little girls. you are supposed to sit all day mentally lost - meditating on the erotic "leela" of radha and krishna.
Go on a TV panel and try to explain the how's why's, if's about raganuga. When they call you a crackpot, come back here to complain.
The point is if you dont understand another person's position don't waste time to criticize. because you will also appear like a nutcake to people once you open your mouth. to express your inner feelings.

[maasikdharma]

Nitai, watching that vid right now.

I agree with Harris 100% that one can practice a sadhana without making outrageous, unprovable claims about the nature of the Universe.

This is where many religionists fail.

They take a subjective modality and want to outrageously assert that it is somehow an objective, scientific "absolute" truth.

This 4 way conversation between Hitchens, Dennett, Dawkins and Harris addresses the issue of "humility" (or lack thereof) amongst the absolutists.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuyUz2XLp1E

Perhaps the most truthful statement any human being has ever made at any time in history is, "I don't know".

[Ldd]

We are so obsessed with worldly minded people, we let them control how we think and feel. We want to be politically correct - so we believe in godlessness. We dont know what is free thought any more. It is a sign of weakness to depend on the opinion of others.
But its the only way we feel good about ourselves. We must feel included in the popular pack of sheep. After watching these shows, we spend the next three days trying to figure out who we should side with. Its how the TV and media shows control people's minds and brains, They dont give you a moment to reflect on what really makes you happy. Mind control.
If you were that absorbed in Krishna, his names would always be running through your minds all the time. I'm talking to myself now ah.

[maasikdharma]

"I'm talking to myself now."

I figured as much.

I personally can't relate to spending even 3 whole minutes, (what to speak of 3 whole days!) trying to figure out some dude to side with! (As you described about yourself.)

Well, good luck with that.

[Nitaidas]

Mar 30, 2010 15:52:25 GMT -6 Ldd said:

We are so obsessed with worldly minded people, we let them control how we think and feel. We want to be politically correct - so we believe in godlessness. We dont know what is free thought any more. It is a sign of weakness to depend on the opinion of others.
But its the only way we feel good about ourselves. We must feel included in the popular pack of sheep. After watching these shows, we spend the next three days trying to figure out who we should side with. Its how the TV and media shows control people's minds and brains, They dont give you a moment to reflect on what really makes you happy. Mind control.
If you were that absorbed in Krishna, his names would always be running through your minds all the time. I'm talking to myself now ah.

Is it really more politically correct to believe in godlessness? Certainly not in the USA. Free thought is clearly thinking for yourself. Not thinking the way you are told to think or the way some ancient (or not so ancient) text tells you to think. Why does that frighten you? Do you doubt the outcome? That in our search for the truth we will not discover Krsna? The whole Vaisnava enterprise is, it seems to me, the quest for experience of the higher truth, that param satyam mentioned in the first verse of the Bhagavata. That kind of experience cannot be had just by reading scripture. The guru teaches us through the world and right now the best lessons are coming from the new atheists and scientists. They make the most sense these days and the theologians are beating a rapid retreat, trying desperately to keep their heads above water and their precious misconceptions of God safe. free from any development or improvement. We are living in an exciting time. Krsna is about to show us his butt cheeks, the proverbial blue moon, and if we are quick and nimble we will be able to pinch them before he escapes again. Don't expect things to happen the way they have in the past. That world is dead. We live in a new world now.

[Nitaidas]

Thanks for these links, masikadharma. They are really delightful and thought-provoking. There is a brave new world out there populated by things like resource-based economies and consciousness raising ideas like evolution and multiverses and anthropic principles and so forth and so on. It is a feast (sympo-sium) for the mind. If square would stop being so stingy and share some of her kirtans with us, it would be a perfect feast.

[Ldd]

but you sang kirtan all night long in radhakund for a whole year, Panchu. Why can't you do least an hour every week? Your family will like it.

[Ldd]

Lalita sakhi ( a sari clad male) was the dearest associate of Radha raman charan dasa baba, "She" was born in a male body. One of the pandits from jaggernath temple recognised her as sakhi whenever the "boy" danced for Lord Jaggernath. Lord jaggernath read the pandits mind and dropped a garland. The pandit realized he was meant to deliver this garland to the boy.

Baba asked the pandit to bless the boy (named Jai Gopal) so he could fulfill his bhav. Then they staged a play in which Jai was assisting the murti of Radha in her love daliance.Soon he began to weep then fell unconcious. Baba breathed mantras into his ears.

Same time a man came in saying that Lord Jaggernath had sent a sari because somebody needed to use one. Baba put on the sari and immediately satwic bhava appeared on his body.
Nawadwip asked who should be the recipient of the sari. Baba said Gopal. Thus Baba gave sakhi vesh to some devotees and cared not for the world's opinion.

The soul is both male and female just like Krishna. Krishna = Radha and Krishna. The soul, according to the duty assigned to it recieves a male body or a female body.

If we can't get over this present male/female identification, there is no hope for raganuga bhakti. the soul is not exclusively one nor the other. That is first basic understanding.

[Ldd]

my dear sakhi maji.

Attachments:

[maasikdharma]

If we can't get over this present male/female identification, there is no hope for raganuga bhakti.

Proof???

[Deleted]

Mar 29, 2010 22:10:54 GMT -6 Nitaidas said:

Thanks for this. This is fun to watch. Michael Shermer and Sam Harris are my heroes. Chopra is such a joke. Who is Jean Houston?

I just watched the debate. I do not see how Chopra was seen as joker here ( i lsitened to him at first time ). I see he was making a good case in front of some ignorant opponet the vedantic concept of God which is very different from Abrahamic idea of God. The problem is for hearing that argument one has to go thorugh the long route of understaning eastern spiritual philosophy and Chopra did not have time to spare for his opponent.

Jay Nitai