Relationships and relation between things.

[12345]

Hello there.

I was reading the first 2 chapters in Tao te ching and it seems to state that it draws it's power from the relationship between two things...like positive and negative electrons etc.

Part 2
All in the world know the beauty of the beautiful, and in doing
this they have (the idea of) what ugliness is; they all know the skill
of the skilful, and in doing this they have (the idea of) what the
want of skill is.

So it is that existence and non-existence give birth the one to
(the idea of) the other; that difficulty and ease produce the one (the
idea of) the other; that length and shortness fashion out the one the
figure of the other; that (the ideas of) height and lowness arise from
the contrast of the one with the other; that the musical notes and
tones become harmonious through the relation of one with another; and
that being before and behind give the idea of one following another.

Therefore the sage manages affairs without doing anything, and
conveys his instructions without the use of speech.

All things spring up, and there is not one which declines to show
itself; they grow, and there is no claim made for their ownership;
they go through their processes, and there is no expectation (of a
reward for the results). The work is accomplished, and there is no
resting in it (as an achievement).

The work is done, but how no one can see;
'Tis this that makes the power not cease to be.

....This last section "Tis this that makes the power not cease to be.

So by the relation between two or more things this creates a power of feelings?....Because it would be hard for human to try and love a Rock...but the atoms that are holding the rock together are in relationship because of the electro magnetic force's and the attraction of opposite atoms.

I noticed in the Caitanya tradition that Krsna loves relationships with the gopis so this to me makes sense as to why relationships between things are needed.

[Nitaidas]

Feb 7, 2010 14:34:32 GMT -6 12345 said:

Hello there.

I was reading the first 2 chapters in Tao te ching and it seems to state that it draws it's power from the relationship between two things...like positive and negative electrons etc.

Part 2
All in the world know the beauty of the beautiful, and in doing
this they have (the idea of) what ugliness is; they all know the skill
of the skilful, and in doing this they have (the idea of) what the
want of skill is.

So it is that existence and non-existence give birth the one to
(the idea of) the other; that difficulty and ease produce the one (the
idea of) the other; that length and shortness fashion out the one the
figure of the other; that (the ideas of) height and lowness arise from
the contrast of the one with the other; that the musical notes and
tones become harmonious through the relation of one with another; and
that being before and behind give the idea of one following another.

Therefore the sage manages affairs without doing anything, and
conveys his instructions without the use of speech.

All things spring up, and there is not one which declines to show
itself; they grow, and there is no claim made for their ownership;
they go through their processes, and there is no expectation (of a
reward for the results). The work is accomplished, and there is no
resting in it (as an achievement).

The work is done, but how no one can see;
'Tis this that makes the power not cease to be.

....This last section "Tis this that makes the power not cease to be.

So by the relation between two or more things this creates a power of feelings?....Because it would be hard for human to try and love a Rock...but the atoms that are holding the rock together are in relationship because of the electro magnetic force's and the attraction of opposite atoms.

I noticed in the Caitanya tradition that Krsna loves relationships with the gopis so this to me makes sense as to why relationships between things are needed.

Some good points about relationship, 12345. In reality aren't we always related? It is the thinking that we are separate or unrelated that counts for illusion. The lines we draw are always arbitrary. But seeing all things and people as related adds to them a fullness that escapes our notice when we see things as separate and distinct. Yes, Caitanya Vaisnavism is all about relationship. In a sense we make Krsna who is he as much as he makes us who we are. Without us he would be nothing and without him we would be nothing. There is an intimacy of being between us even when he does not see us because we have turned away from him.

[Nitaidas]

I've been reading a book called Space, Time and Beyond, written by two physicists and a seeker. It is an extraordinary book and I am still struggling to understand it but there are some quotations that seem appropriate here:

"All things are interconnected. Every part of your universe is directly connected to every other part" (p. 33)

"Every part is directly connected to every other part through the wormholes of space. At this level of quantum gravity there is no time or distance separating parts. The description of any part is inseparable from the description of the whole" (p 34)

"Connections cannot be perceived in ordinary states of consciousness. You and I are ripples in the turbulent sea of space." (p. 35)

From Space, Time and Beyond by Bob Toben in conversation with Jack Sarfatti and Fred Wolf.

Every claim is based on some aspect of Quantum theory as it was understood some thirty years ago. That was before super-strings and such, but it appears that much of the science is still relevant. Needless to say, much is draw from the work of David Bohm.

[12345]

I have noticed that alot of the of the old civilizations would lean towards this same interconnectedness of quantum theory stuff. Awesome quotes from that book, will have to give it a read myself one of these days.

[JD33]

The movie Avatar shows inter-connection and the Tibetan Buddhists have a wealth of writings on it (I don't remember what texts or books exactly). I must insist though that it can be experienced, meaning that one can see directly into this inter-connected oneness through spiritual realization. The difficult part is to talk about it as it is certainly mind-blowing, none-the-less mayube it should be talked about so as to get a better mental grasp of it....hhhmmmmm does that make sense to anyone?

[12345]

Schrodinger's cat in the box experiment is out of it.

www.scribd.com/doc/92682/On-Quantum-Mechanics-Consciousness

Pages 1-10 have some good reading

[Nitaidas]

Has anyone seen this movie? It seems to include one of the authors of the book I am reading, Fred Alan Wolf. What the Bleep Do We Know Anyway? He also seems to have written quite a number of other books on Quantum Physics and Consciousness since that book. One of the problems with that book (Space, Time and Beyond) is that it is over thirty years old. That is a long time in the world of science. Much has changed since then, I would assume. Perhaps his other books bring us up to date.

Thanks for that link to the paper on Quantum Physics, 12345. It looks quite good. I had my reservations when I saw "History Paper" written on it. But scanning through it it looks like if will be quite informative. Lots of good citations, too.

[12345]

Hello there i actually read the whole paper(45 pages), he has got very good references. I also found page 23 interesting. I found it to be very informative.

[Nitaidas]

Read the whole thing? Well I will give it a shot too. It may pull some things together for me. I took the leap today and started looking at David Bohm's Undivided Universe, his last book before he died. I looked at it earlier and was put off by all the mathematical formulae. It looks like it will be readable, however, even if the math is above my head. The Undivided Universe is his way of describing the wholeness of the universe, everything related to everything else, which is what I take this topic to be exploring.