Giving Charity??

[Nityānanda dāsa]

In the Gita we know that Sri Krishna talks about giving charity according to the three modes. I've also heard it presented that to give charity to an ordinary or "material" organization is not good charity to give as it only helps to "save the clothing of a drowning person" and not the person him or herself. So I've mostly stayed away from giving to charities. I have contributed to Vaishnava causes like goseva. Any thoughts on this?
It also seems to me that with most charities it is difficult to know how much of one's donation actually goes to the cause.

Jai Sri Radhe!
🙏🏻

[meeno8]

WWF, et al. Any cause to combat global warming as well. The Gita does not really cover the current environmental crises that were not anticipated when it was authored.

[Nitaidas]

Hi Nilamadhavadasji,

রাধে রাধে !

I recommend giving charity if one has resources to spare. We give to organizations like Doctors Without Borders, to numerous food pantries, to the Humane Society, to the ASPCA, to the Sierra Club, and to various political groups to keep this country from falling into the hands of racist pigs like it did in 2016. Can't tell dead people about Krsna and there is a lot of starvation around the world because of rampant meat production. We have to do something to help. I give so much that Betsy has started keeping track to keep me from giving to the same organization twenty times a year. I forget sometimes if I have already given to a charity.

There is a way to check the organizations to which one wants to give. It is called Charity Navigator and rates various charities on how much of the money donated actually gets to those for whom it was intended. Charity and generosity is one of the virtues of bhaktas, except in IGM. They want it all to come to them so their swamis' butts can get bigger.

জয় রাধে!

[Ldd]

Charity given to temples are unaccounted and the poor keeps getting poorer and cows are dying out - no one cares.
They have reserved gold and properties and don't care about donors wellbeing : I find people who are in need (poor sadhus in India and send directly) I also give to goseva. There are many poor causes abroad and Haiti etc. India is not poor because the west exploited it all. The religious guys have long made a living of the people and thats the general norm with religious institutions.

The IGM leads the hypocrisy - cause they want all of it to come their way and treat the underworkers like slaves.

[meeno8]

Goseva is good sentiment in the short term, but is actually short-sighted in the long term. Laboratory grown meat is already being produced, and several companies have billions of dollars invested into the effort to get the cost down to make it affordable for people. This means that all herds will be dairy herds soon enough. However, those still need to be limited due to the fact that they will produce methane from their digestion. The tipping point will be when meat from slaughter costs more than laboratory (factory produced) meat.

[Ldd]

I suppose you have to adjust charity as time goes along - maybe there will not be cows in the future, but there will always be the innocent underpriviledge and voiceless members of creation - one must feel moved to help them. Giving to sadhus these days: I'd be very careful and give only to deserving, poor and ascetics mostly. The rich ones have enough already and we dont want to spoil them any further.

[Do not help ungrateful uncultured people even if they are poor, it will backfire and they will give you trouble is another one of my rules.]

[madanmohandas]

Came across a funny quote the other day, "When I help the poor, they call me a saint; when I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." hahahaha

Dom Helder Camara

It's quite interesting to paraphrase charity in relation to the three gunas as, That gift given respectfully at the right time, to the right person, for a good cause, without expectation of reward, is Sattvic. That charity given indifferently, without consideration of time, person or cause, with a hope for honour and reward is Rajasic. Charity given to the wrong person at the wrong time, for a bad cause is Tamasic.

Generous donatives of gifts to make,
For no return, purely for duty's sake;
In place, at times, to persons deemed worthy,
Such donatives are Sattvic said to be.

But those who give in hopes of some return,
Urged by the wish for merit's fruit to earn,
Given reluctantly and grudgingly,
Such is known as Rajasik charity.

And those gifts made inconsiderately,
In place, at times, to persons unworthy;
With disrespect and with dishonour shown,
Such charity as Tamasic is known.

Gita XVII. 20-22

[bets]

Apr 28, 2021 4:57:43 GMT -6 madanmohandas said:

Came across a funny quote the other day, "When I help the poor, they call me a saint; when I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." hahahaha

Dom Helder Camara

It's quite interesting to paraphrase charity in relation to the three gunas as, That gift given respectfully at the right time, to the right person, for a good cause, without expectation of reward, is Sattvic. That charity given indifferently, without consideration of time, person or cause, with a hope for honour and reward is Rajasic. Charity given to the wrong person at the wrong time, for a bad cause is Tamasic.

Generous donatives of gifts to make,
For no return, purely for duty's sake;
In place, at times, to persons deemed worthy,
Such donatives are Sattvic said to be.

But those who give in hopes of some return,
Urged by the wish for merit's fruit to earn,
Given reluctantly and grudgingly,
Such is known as Rajasik charity.

And those gifts made inconsiderately,
In place, at times, to persons unworthy;
With disrespect and with dishonour shown,
Such charity as Tamasic is known.

Gita XVII. 20-22

[bets]

Trying to figure out how to reconcile the old "Judge not" warning from Christian scripture with the Tamisic strand here.... Guess we do judge, or why would I see your Gita XVII 22 and think immediately, "So don't donate to Proud Boys!"

[madanmohandas]

Apr 28, 2021 11:07:27 GMT -6 bets said:

Trying to figure out how to reconcile the old "Judge not" warning from Christian scripture with the Tamisic strand here.... Guess we do judge, or why would I see your Gita XVII 22 and think immediately, "So don't donate to Proud Boys!"

Yes, I think I get you. I take 'judge not' as a caution not think in terms of the deserving and the undeserving poor.
From As You Like It
ACT II SCENE I The Forest of Arden.
[ DUKE SENIOR, AMIENS, and two or three Lords, like foresters ]

First Lord
Indeed, my lord,
The melancholy Jaques grieves at that,
And, in that kind, swears you do more usurp
Than doth your brother that hath banish'd you.
To-day my Lord of Amiens and myself
Did steal behind him as he lay along
Under an oak whose antique root peeps out
Upon the brook that brawls along this wood:
To the which place a poor sequester'd stag,
That from the hunter's aim had ta'en a hurt,
Did come to languish, and indeed, my lord,
The wretched animal heaved forth such groans
That their discharge did stretch his leathern coat
Almost to bursting, and the big round tears
Coursed one another down his innocent nose
In piteous chase; and thus the hairy fool
Much marked of the melancholy Jaques,
Stood on the extremest verge of the swift brook,
Augmenting it with tears.

DUKE SENIOR
But what said Jaques?
Did he not moralize this spectacle?

First Lord
O, yes, into a thousand similes.
First, for his weeping into the needless stream;
'Poor deer,' quoth he, 'thou makest a testament
As worldlings do, giving thy sum of more
To that which had too much:' then, being there alone,
Left and abandon'd of his velvet friends,
''Tis right:' quoth he; 'thus misery doth part
The flux of company:' anon a careless herd,
Full of the pasture, jumps along by him
And never stays to greet him; 'Ay' quoth Jaques,
'Sweep on, you fat and greasy citizens;
'Tis just the fashion: wherefore do you look
Upon that poor and broken bankrupt there?'
Thus most invectively he pierceth through
The body of the country, city, court,
Yea, and of this our life, swearing that we
Are mere usurpers, tyrants and what's worse,
To fright the animals and to kill them up
In their assign'd and native dwelling-place.

DUKE SENIOR
And did you leave him in this contemplation?


Second Lord
We did, my lord, weeping and commenting
Upon the sobbing deer.

DUKE SENIOR
Show me the place:
I love to cope him in these sullen fits,
For then he's full of matter.

First Lord
I'll bring you to him straight.

[service to Radha's feet]

I think it is very noble to give charity to charitable organizations, or someone in need. Lots of good is done to help people, animals, and the planet.

[Ldd]

There are millions of poor sadhus and poor people deemed worthy, Im not sure if the rich ones are deemed worthy, in any case they already have enough. Poor ones of bad behavior should also be helped, rethinking. Getting personally involved with them is a problem, but they need help too - maybe via gov't or orgs.

[madanmohandas]

That's what I mean. People often think that the poor deserve to be so. It goes deep in English culture since the old vagrancy laws.

Came across a Bhagavata verse recently which struck me.

Not all Vedas, nor sacrificial rites.
Charity, nor penance of anchorites,
Can, sinless one, with a fraction compare
With granting to a soul freedom from fear. SB.III.VII.41