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Post by vkaul1 on Jan 29, 2012 13:19:26 GMT -6
A: Smaranam or rememberance is not the prime factor in raganuga. The description which you are saying is in vaidhi bhakti.
Raganuga is the same as uttama bhakti. And uttama bhakti is Anukulyena kRSNAnuzIlanam means favourable service to Krsna. That service is not just smaranam, because smaranam means you remain just in one place, chant or remember or something like that. How will you have the feeling of attachment to the Lord in that?
This raganuga is defined as a loving relationship. Just as materialistic people are always attached to sense pleasures without any factors and their mind is never released from that attachment, so uttama bhakti is like that. If that kind of attachment is there then how the person can just sit in one place, just remember or is going around with the bead bag everywhere? You have to see the character of the previous people who were devotees like Rupa Gosvami, Sanatana Gosvami, because raganuga bhakti is described as sadhana (CC Mad. 22.105):
kRti-sAdhyA bhavet sAdhya-
bhAvA sA sAdhanAbhidhA
nitya-siddhasya bhAvasya
prAkaTyaM hRdi sAdhyatA
That you perform the sadhana and the sadhana is also by the grace because you like it.
It begins with sraddha, adau-sraddha, sraddha means trust in the words of guru and sastra. So when you begin then you do service then the bhava of the nitya-siddha devotee, which is a loving sentiment for the Lord, which means to desire to do favourable service, that bhava appears in your heart. If that bhava is going to appear in your heart, then how will you just sit and not do service? This nitya-siddha bhava means the bhava of devotees like Rupa and Sanatana Gosvamis. So you have to see whether they were just sitting, doing smaranam or whether they did so many things. Or you see the devotees who are described in Srimad Bhagavatam, were they just sitting down doing smaranam or were they doing seva, paricarya? Uttama bhakti is paricarya or service, because that only is going to please the guru or the Lord.
This whole idea of just doing smaranam or lila smaranam in these different stages was propagated in between, some time after Mahaprabhu’s appearance and the Gosvamis, there was a period when some people propagated that. But that is not the prime thing in raganuga bhakti. It is also there, but it is not the main thing. Considering that different lineages in CV have different takes on this issue, I would like to know about the opinion of members from this forum. |
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Post by spiritualbhakti on Jan 29, 2012 15:51:08 GMT -6
Please share with us your opinion.
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Post by vkaul1 on Jan 29, 2012 21:00:02 GMT -6
I don't know.
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Post by spiritualbhakti on Jan 31, 2012 8:38:36 GMT -6
Thakur Mahashaya in Prema Bhakti Candrika writes: sAdhana smaraNa lIlA, ihAte nA koro helA kAya mane koriyA susAra | manera smaraNa prANa, madhura madhura dhAma yugala vilAsa smRti sAra | sAdhya sAdhana ei, ihA boi Ara nAi ei tattva sarva vidhi sAra || "Do not neglect the practice of lila-smarana, keep this as the essence with body and mind. The very life-force of the mind is smarana, which is the abode of all sweetness, and the essence of smarana is the pastimes of Radha and Krishna. This is the means, this is the goal, and there is nothing apart from this. This truth is the essence of all regulative principles." I agree with both conclusions.  Also I'm sure Nama Kirtan is suppose to be the main practice.And the mind has to be purified to really engage in smaranam. |
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kalki
Full Member
Posts: 161
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Post by kalki on Feb 22, 2012 18:26:09 GMT -6
Thakur Mahashaya in Prema Bhakti Candrika writes: sAdhana smaraNa lIlA, ihAte nA koro helA kAya mane koriyA susAra | manera smaraNa prANa, madhura madhura dhAma yugala vilAsa smRti sAra | sAdhya sAdhana ei, ihA boi Ara nAi ei tattva sarva vidhi sAra || "Do not neglect the practice of lila-smarana, keep this as the essence with body and mind. The very life-force of the mind is smarana, which is the abode of all sweetness, and the essence of smarana is the pastimes of Radha and Krishna. This is the means, this is the goal, and there is nothing apart from this. This truth is the essence of all regulative principles." This seems to mean that if this truth called smaranam is the essence of all regs, then it is indeed related directly to vaidhi, is it not? So perhaps the real central purpose of raganuga is spontaneous devotion or in other words, service. Smaranam is just maybe a vaidhi practice which raganuga bhaktas engage in. Iskcon's path is also raganuga I suppose and raganuga bhakti is preached there. The only question is whether they will ever attain it without the correct teachings, correct pranali, or absence of offensives toward pure raganuga bhaktas and bhaktins. Are they doing vaidhi though? Can they do vaidhi without connection to proper lineage, or do they also miss the fruit? Is there a distinction in the qualification of who can engage in vaidhi like there is distinction of who can engage in raganuga? Is vaidhi the same as acquiring sukriti through pious acts like chanting and reading or is it a much different animal? |
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Post by malati on Feb 25, 2012 2:27:44 GMT -6
Thakur Mahashaya in Prema Bhakti Candrika writes: sAdhana smaraNa lIlA, ihAte nA koro helA kAya mane koriyA susAra | manera smaraNa prANa, madhura madhura dhAma yugala vilAsa smRti sAra | sAdhya sAdhana ei, ihA boi Ara nAi ei tattva sarva vidhi sAra || "Do not neglect the practice of lila-smarana, keep this as the essence with body and mind. The very life-force of the mind is smarana, which is the abode of all sweetness, and the essence of smarana is the pastimes of Radha and Krishna. This is the means, this is the goal, and there is nothing apart from this. This truth is the essence of all regulative principles." This seems to mean that if this truth called smaranam is the essence of all regs, then it is indeed related directly to vaidhi, is it not? So perhaps the real central purpose of raganuga is spontaneous devotion or in other words, service. Smaranam is just maybe a vaidhi practice which raganuga bhaktas engage in. Iskcon's path is also raganuga I suppose and raganuga bhakti is preached there. The only question is whether they will ever attain it without the correct teachings, correct pranali, or absence of offensives toward pure raganuga bhaktas and bhaktins. Are they doing vaidhi though? Can they do vaidhi without connection to proper lineage, or do they also miss the fruit? Is there a distinction in the qualification of who can engage in vaidhi like there is distinction of who can engage in raganuga? Is vaidhi the same as acquiring sukriti through pious acts like chanting and reading or is it a much different animal?
To me vaidhi is going through the motion. Of course, spiritual activities even, unintentioned and without attention has spiritual benefits and so of course, those outside of the proper lineage can receive the fruits too. But the degree of advancement is the critical point.
But how can real advancement be within reach if some devotees and gurus/swamis do not go beyond their comfort zone, replace resentment in their hearts with love and give acknowledgment to and learn from the Babajis.
I call on swamis like Tripurari Swami, Trivikrama Swami, Jadyavaita, etc, etc to go beyond their comfort zones. |
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kalki
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Post by kalki on Mar 1, 2012 2:12:39 GMT -6
I call on swamis like Tripurari Swami, Trivikrama Swami, Jadyavaita, etc, etc to go beyond their comfort zones. Why are you selecting those three? Are they more special than the others? More advanced do you figure? At least Tripurari Swami has learned outside of Iskcon. Probably he goes to meet Babas secretly and does not tell anyone, the same like Narayan Maharaj. On the other hand, I don't see why it is so bad to be within one's comfort zone. It is comfortable, isn't it? We all have something that we are not comfortable with. Caution can be wisdom. If one is good and ready, he or she will go forward to unchartered territory. No sense in pushing. The only thing that should be adjusted at first is any unnecessary offenses which will destroy ones's chances in the future. |
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