|
|
Post by Nitaidas on Jan 4, 2011 13:50:04 GMT -6
Thanks for the update and your eulogies, malati and rahulhbji. I never met the man, but I know lots of people thought highly of him. He was a hard worker on behalf of his tradition. I, of course, have issues with him and the others of his order. I disliked the Vaisnava aparadha he and others engaged in and that will have to come back to him at some point. Much of that was the result of the memes he picked up from his guru-varga. Those memes must be left behind, as I and others have tried to leave behind the anartha memes we inherited from out IGM gurus. Nevertheless, I wish him the best in his next state of existence, whatever and wherever that may be, and I wish you the best too in finding a worthwhile and inspiring traditional guru.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nitaidas on Jan 5, 2011 10:48:09 GMT -6
The simplest explanation for all of these things is that none of them are true. I can't believe that anyone, especially you, believes that any of it is true. He was a common bully who threatened the lives of defectors from IGM. There is no such thing as a "pure" devotee in the mainstream tradition. There are siddhas and non-siddhas. He is not likely to have been a siddha given his misbehavior regarding Vaisnava aparadha and violence directed at bhaktas. Forget that he was not properly initiated, in my opinion his biggest obstacle.
All the rest is just the result of a well-oiled PR machine, nothing more. Surely you don't give credence to pseudo-sciences like astrology and palmistry. Didn't you receive a good education there in England? How is it that you have been left with so little ability to think critically? How is it that you have remained so gullible?
He may have been offered prasada from Seva Kunj but that can be chalked up to the kindness of real Vaisnavas. And dreams? Who knows whether they are to be taken seriously or not. If Vaisnavas of repute have said nice things about him it is because they are by nature nice. I am not as advanced as that. I think he was a crumb and I am glad he is gone. That makes one less corrupter of the tradition to contend with. I am sure he will be replaced, however. That is the sad news. It may be by someone even more obnoxious than him.
Really? This is your evidence that he was advanced. There is nothing necessarily perfect about his departure? It is all mythology to befuddle his followers and it seems to be working.
If you thought he was so great why didn't you become his sincere and intimate follower? You, too, on some level must have thought that there was something creepy about him.
Once again I must say that I respect him as a human being, a lost human being who was unable to rise above his situation, but not as a sadhu. I genuinely hope he does better in his next life.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nitaidas on Jan 6, 2011 13:25:02 GMT -6
Yes i recieved a fine education here actually i attended some of the finest public schools in england from the age of 3 , costing around 25,000 dollars a year since that age. So did all my siblings and entire family. There are plenty of educated people in IGM , who went to far far better universities than Chicago. Havard , Oxford , Cambridge , Yale , Princeton , there are plenty in IGM who graduated from here , and have high IQ's , krishna concious groups at all of the universities are thriving and i should know. I still have a number of friends and relatives at Oxford and Cambridge. Yes, there are educated people in IGM. A good education is an important thing. I don't know what universities you think are better than the ones you have listed, however. But having a good education and using it are not the same thing. It is like having a proper initiation and doing the practice that it is the foundation of. Simply being properly initiated is not enough. One has to do the practices, too. Initiation is just a start. Yes, it was a cheap shot. Sorry about that. I just learned this morning that one of the greatest critical thinkers and scientists of the last century, Sigmund Freud, may have believed in telepathy (thought-transference). So critical thinking and gullibility can certainly co-exist, as incompatible as that seems. I did not know that you have not gone to university yet. I assumed you had or were currently going. Anyway, I believe you when you say you and your family are doing well and that you are making good money. Those things are believable. When you claim that Narayan Maharaj worked miracles and brought a dead boy back to life, I do not believe you. Making lots of money many people do. Curing the ill and bringing back the dead, are not commonly done. So excuse me if I disbelieve it and demand more evidence. In my sixty years I have heard many such miraculous claims and most of them have either been proven false or have had other explanations. The placebo effect is usually the cause of miraculous "cures." This might seem like a put down, but it is not. We in all honesty do not know how the placebo effect works. So it could turn out to be a very effective way of getting people to cure themselves. In other words it should not be written off. But really, if Narayan Maharaj could heal others and raise the dead, why did he not heal himself? Surely, if he had those powers and the realization you attribute to him, his further stay on the earth would have been a valuable service to Krsna. Do you see how implausible it is? Besides the performance of miracles is not a way to determine who is a real sadhu or siddha. I don't even believe the stories of miracles that are told about my gurudev. I think they are childish and attract the wrong kind of follower. I can understand how my guru-bhais might be able to express their wonder and appreciation by inventing and telling such stories, but I think they are just distractions from his most important traits and qualities. This too does not prove the validity of IGM. In fact, it might be evidence against its validity. It only proves that IGM is very good at selling its product in the economy of religious firms or corporations. Since the product itself is largely intangible, there is no real way to test its authenticity until it is too late. I was in ISKCON six years before I discovered that the product was fake and I was lucky. Most never found out. If you think about it, you realize that that is why IGM needs all this miracle-mongering: to distract their customers from discovering that the product they are being sold is fake. This is what I don't understand. If you have such faith in this fellow why don't you just surrender to him? Why do you want to go after a traditional guru? It will not be easy. They do not accept disciples that readily. You might become like many others I know who just succeeded in getting Harinama-diksa and were told to come back in a year or two. I mean I don't want to discourage you, but traditional CV is not for the faint of heart. It might take living in the wilds of Braja or Nabadvip and much privation and humility to get properly initiated. Then one should stay with one's gurudev for a time to learn how to do proper bhajan. That can take many years, depending on whether you want to do Lila-smarana or not. Don't think that you can rush in to come comfortable ashram in Braja and get initiation and then rush back to your comfortable London flat. It really takes time to learn the proper habits of ritual cleanliness and mantra japa and visualization and kirtana and so forth. Preaching is not my thing. I was trained by bhajananandis. I don't think preaching is anything any real bhaktas should be involved with. That is what the Lords do. Narayan Maharaj and others of his ilk may have had some charisma. But charisma is not the same thing as sanctity. The IGM model is not one we should copy. It might appear to you that IGM is making CV available to people around the world, but really the opposite is occurring. They are making it impossible to find the real thing in a sea of fakes. One should recognize both good and bad, don't you think? Otherwise, one's view is not complete. Bad: no diksa, Vaisnava aparadha, apasiddhanta, namaparadha, Good: They look like real Vaisnavism (makes it easier to recognize later), they provide an alternative to Christianity, Islam, and Judaism (making Westerners and Indians too realize that there are real alternatives and live options); they have been a stepping stone for those (like yourself) on their way to real CV. I have sometimes wondered if IGM were not part of the Lord's plan. Send in the clowns and get us all laughing, then invite us individually to the real party. |
|
|
|
Post by Nitaidas on Jan 6, 2011 16:02:49 GMT -6
Anyhow he has gone , and has not named a successor. In a way it is an exciting new challenge , i can find a traditional guru to listen to and take shelter of. I have plans to see Hari das shastri and Satya Narayan Das. And also have plans to visit Radha kund and spend time with Ananta Das babaji and Prana krishna das babaji. So it is exciting. All great bhaktas. What are your language skills like? Visit Nabadvip too. The venerable family of Prabhupada Prangopal Goswami. All those you have mentioned are renunciants. You should also explore householder CV, too. |
|
|
|
Post by beast on Jun 16, 2011 18:41:37 GMT -6
I am laughing at this posting wondering when will so called devotees ever grow up from their small mindedness and so called professorship acting as if they know everything there is to know about Vaisnavism and the people that practise it. Isnt it strange that a man born outside of India who has no culture and proper samskaras pass judgement on someone who was born in India and that too into a Triveda Brahmana family. I can say this is what is called arrogance and also not to mention pride and envy.
By referring to someone who is vaisnava or practising vaisnavavism as "fellow" instead of proper usage like Svami, Prabhu, Ji etc, you only commit offences though you may like to call yourself a bhajanandi. Very fake one at least. No Bhajanandi ever commits aparad to even a jiva let alone someone who is way more advanced and qualified than yourself.
Well Nitai Das ji, the above actually refers to you. None of us are actually really Vaisnavas in the true sense till we have prema and prema comes not put of envy for a more qualified vaisnava but from humilty and complete seve to one who has prema.
Tad Viddhi pranipatena, pariprasnena sevaya.
Maybe you didnt know that in the line of the Gaudiya's there were many bhajanandi's like Srila GauraKishor Das Babaji Maharaj and Jagannath Das Babaji Maharaj. They are also the Guru lineage that all Gaudiya Maths and even Iskcon follows. There is a good mix of Gosthananandi and Bhajanandi Gurus in our line. Both have their atributes. I dont see why a "real" bhakta cant come out from a Maha Bhagavat that preaches the lords glories as much as Bhajanandi would. That shows your limited understanding on what true spirituality is as you would like to think so.
Spirituality is all around us and the most basic teaching is ahimsa but clearly you dont seem to understand that but rather pass very bad remarks on a vaisnava higher than you. As usual, the Ass wipers always think themselves more qualified and hence create offences and this is like a never ending story from the time Srila Svami Maharaj stepped into the US. You are basically the sam epea in a pod. No difference from the many other offenders of Srila Narayana Maharaj and other vaisnavas.
Please dont call yourself a a bhajanandi when you have no real idea what it is other than theory and dont make offences to vaisnavas more senior to you if you care to progress in your spiritual life.
About diksa, I dont think you have achieved real diksa to actually say anything about it because the most simple fact is, Bhajanandi's if they are truly bonafide honor everyone and based on your statements and behaviour, your Guru's may not have been giving you the right lessons. It could also be, you are just a poor student and truly have a long way to go.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nitaidas on Jun 16, 2011 22:34:48 GMT -6
I am laughing at this posting wondering when will so called devotees ever grow up from their small mindedness and so called professorship acting as if they know everything there is to know about Vaisnavism and the people that practise it. Isnt it strange that a man born outside of India who has no culture and proper samskaras pass judgement on someone who was born in India and that too into a Triveda Brahmana family. I can say this is what is called arrogance and also not to mention pride and envy. By referring to someone who is vaisnava or practising vaisnavavism as "fellow" instead of proper usage like Svami, Prabhu, Ji etc, you only commit offences though you may like to call yourself a bhajanandi. Very fake one at least. No Bhajanandi ever commits aparad to even a jiva let alone someone who is way more advanced and qualified than yourself. Well Nitai Das ji, the above actually refers to you. None of us are actually really Vaisnavas in the true sense till we have prema and prema comes not put of envy for a more qualified vaisnava but from humilty and complete seve to one who has prema. Tad Viddhi pranipatena, pariprasnena sevaya. Maybe you didnt know that in the line of the Gaudiya's there were many bhajanandi's like Srila GauraKishor Das Babaji Maharaj and Jagannath Das Babaji Maharaj. They are also the Guru lineage that all Gaudiya Maths and even Iskcon follows. There is a good mix of Gosthananandi and Bhajanandi Gurus in our line. Both have their atributes. I dont see why a "real" bhakta cant come out from a Maha Bhagavat that preaches the lords glories as much as Bhajanandi would. That shows your limited understanding on what true spirituality is as you would like to think so. Spirituality is all around us and the most basic teaching is ahimsa but clearly you dont seem to understand that but rather pass very bad remarks on a vaisnava higher than you. As usual, the Ass wipers always think themselves more qualified and hence create offences and this is like a never ending story from the time Srila Svami Maharaj stepped into the US. You are basically the sam epea in a pod. No difference from the many other offenders of Srila Narayana Maharaj and other vaisnavas. Please dont call yourself a a bhajanandi when you have no real idea what it is other than theory and dont make offences to vaisnavas more senior to you if you care to progress in your spiritual life. About diksa, I dont think you have achieved real diksa to actually say anything about it because the most simple fact is, Bhajanandi's if they are truly bonafide honor everyone and based on your statements and behaviour, your Guru's may not have been giving you the right lessons. It could also be, you are just a poor student and truly have a long way to go. You are such a childish fool. Why should I waste my time on you? |
|
|
|
Post by cuckoo4cocopuffs on Jan 10, 2012 18:32:50 GMT -6
Uh what? (My Butthead impression) I don't really know anything about miracles or what not. Other than the fact that I have witnessed some events that defy explanation. I am sure the fellow was just human like the rest of us. Mean spirited was probably the result of abuse by his father, which it usually is. He was unable to rise above it, except perhaps in his latter years. I doubt he had the same violent temper in recent years as he apparently displayed when he was younger. Then again, I don't really know much about him. He deserves an annual memorial just for being human. So belatedly, let's remember him one more time.
Bhaja Govindam, Bhaja Govindam, Bhaja Govindam
For the Advaitins among us: Cuckoo
|
|
|
|
Post by cuckoo4cocopuffs on Jan 10, 2012 21:23:09 GMT -6
Of course astrology is a real science. It has to be. Case in point: The astrologers that conceived of astrology at a time when real science did not yet exist sent this encoded message to the scientists of the 'future' (our 'present'): We do not practice science, we practice SORCERY!
How do I know this: It is clearly there in the horoscope of my new Acer notebook.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nitaidas on Jan 10, 2012 22:36:35 GMT -6
Well, it looks like our friend Minaketan (now known as cuckoo4cocopuffs) has descended among us again. Let the good times roll!
|
|
|
|
Post by cuckoo4cocopuffs on Jan 11, 2012 17:57:40 GMT -6
Some guy carrying a fish banner....
I used to swallow whales whole, when I wasn't busy being swallowed by them.
|
|
|
|
Post by cuckoo4cocopuffs on Jan 11, 2012 17:58:56 GMT -6
Oh, wait that was that other book...
How do you locate a good Kabbalist when you need one?
Try ringing your dinner bell....
Wait that was that other guy...
Wait....
I'm so confused!
|
|
