Post by Nityānanda dāsa on Jan 10, 2020 18:33:39 GMT -6
Radhe Radhe!
I was just thinking how there are so many great things here, shared and discussed on this Caitanya Symposium. Sadly, there is somewhat of a jumble of info. For example, I was just appreciating this recent post from Nitai Dasji here: caitanyasympos.proboards.com/post/10946 which gives links to some really good articles, helping to root out misunderstandings, apasiddhantas, and mISKCONceptions.
This reminded me of another thread I started that took me a minute to find, 'Unwanted Baggage and Dysfunction in Sadhana'.
Could we create a new board/thread maybe under the primary 'The Caitanya Symposium' directory called 'Rooting out IGM & mISKCONceptions' and then move the unwanted baggage thread to that directory? Seems to me that while we don't need to focus so much on this piece, it will be an integral piece for visitors to the symposium who are looking for more information in their departure from IGM. I know this info would have been extremely helpful to me 10-15 years ago. I don't think I even knew about this symposium then (sadly). But we all move at our own pace I suppose.
Lastly, along the lines of rooting out IGM anarthas, I have a question... (And obviously this post also should probably go under one of the above directories/threads. I'm not sure how easy it is to re-organize threads and discussions, so I apologize if it's a headache).
UNDERSTANDING/(MIS)APPLICATION OF APARADHA IN IGM
When it comes to the topic of aparadha, obviously we know the seriousness of aparadha, yet IGM has so thoroughly abused the concept, using it to brow beat pretty much everyone (all of their followers) into submission, that I don't think we have a very clear idea of what aparadha is. Not only that, but stories in the sastra do seem to give quite an extremely wide range of examples that are aparadha. Examples:
(1) When one of the goswamis was in smaranam, he laughed. But one crippled vaishnava sadhu was walking by and thought that the goswami was laughing at him and took offense. This broke the goswami's meditation and he had to seek out this offense he caused to rectify it.
(2) Indra offended his guru Brihaspati by not standing to offer him respects when Brihaspati entered the assembly of Indra.
(3) Daksa offended Siva by not making a place for Siva at his (Daksa's) yajna.
(4) Nalakuvera and Manigriva offended Narada in their drunken, naked stupor.
(5) The Visnudutas, Jaya and Vijaya, offended the four Kumaras leading to Jaya and Vijaya having to take birth to be demons.
(6) Indra being cursed to have vajinas all over his body, and then the curse modified for them to be eyes instead. I forget the cause of the curse, but obviously an offense. --- Indra seems to be notable for making a lot of offenses, while there is one sage (I forget his name) who seems to be famous for cursing people. The sage who is in the Mahabharat story went to visit the Pandavas in the forest I think and about the famous food pot of Draupadi, where Krishna ate a couple grains of rice from that pot and the sage and his entourage were satisfied (their hunger) and it didn't lead to the sage cursing the Pandavas.
(7) The curse leading women to have an impure time of the month.
(8) Gadadhar Pandit believing he offended Pundarik Vidyanidhi mentally.
(9) Jagai and Madhai
(10) The senior sannyasi criticizing Mahaprabhu for supposedly eating sweets.
Etc. etc.
And on and on... so many offenses and curses. It's like one can't disagree or even raise an eyebrow without it possibly being an offense. Which is exactly my point. How are we to know what is healthy discernment and disagreement? When (if ever) is it ok to publicly voice one's concerns about what seems inappropriate about another sadhaka's behavior? Clearly IGM wants everyone to know and fervently believe that questioning their authority is a major vaishnava aparadha, yet we all know that such an idea is one of the biggest lies around. But they couch it in with the 3rd offense to the Holy Name, which makes most followers shiver in their boots and run away with their ears covered if anyone tries to show that the 'emperors' are naked. I guess this is exactly why Erich Fromm wrote, “The desires and thoughts that the suggestion-apparatus of society (or authoritarian spiritual leadership) fills him with, chain him more thoroughly than outer chains. This is so because man can at least be aware of outer chains but be unaware of inner chains, carrying them with the illusion that he is free.” [The Art of Being; Erich Fromm; 1989]
I guess that's all for now. I'm looking forward to your thoughts. Gaura Haribol!!
I was just thinking how there are so many great things here, shared and discussed on this Caitanya Symposium. Sadly, there is somewhat of a jumble of info. For example, I was just appreciating this recent post from Nitai Dasji here: caitanyasympos.proboards.com/post/10946 which gives links to some really good articles, helping to root out misunderstandings, apasiddhantas, and mISKCONceptions.
This reminded me of another thread I started that took me a minute to find, 'Unwanted Baggage and Dysfunction in Sadhana'.
Could we create a new board/thread maybe under the primary 'The Caitanya Symposium' directory called 'Rooting out IGM & mISKCONceptions' and then move the unwanted baggage thread to that directory? Seems to me that while we don't need to focus so much on this piece, it will be an integral piece for visitors to the symposium who are looking for more information in their departure from IGM. I know this info would have been extremely helpful to me 10-15 years ago. I don't think I even knew about this symposium then (sadly). But we all move at our own pace I suppose.
Lastly, along the lines of rooting out IGM anarthas, I have a question... (And obviously this post also should probably go under one of the above directories/threads. I'm not sure how easy it is to re-organize threads and discussions, so I apologize if it's a headache).
UNDERSTANDING/(MIS)APPLICATION OF APARADHA IN IGM
When it comes to the topic of aparadha, obviously we know the seriousness of aparadha, yet IGM has so thoroughly abused the concept, using it to brow beat pretty much everyone (all of their followers) into submission, that I don't think we have a very clear idea of what aparadha is. Not only that, but stories in the sastra do seem to give quite an extremely wide range of examples that are aparadha. Examples:
(1) When one of the goswamis was in smaranam, he laughed. But one crippled vaishnava sadhu was walking by and thought that the goswami was laughing at him and took offense. This broke the goswami's meditation and he had to seek out this offense he caused to rectify it.
(2) Indra offended his guru Brihaspati by not standing to offer him respects when Brihaspati entered the assembly of Indra.
(3) Daksa offended Siva by not making a place for Siva at his (Daksa's) yajna.
(4) Nalakuvera and Manigriva offended Narada in their drunken, naked stupor.
(5) The Visnudutas, Jaya and Vijaya, offended the four Kumaras leading to Jaya and Vijaya having to take birth to be demons.
(6) Indra being cursed to have vajinas all over his body, and then the curse modified for them to be eyes instead. I forget the cause of the curse, but obviously an offense. --- Indra seems to be notable for making a lot of offenses, while there is one sage (I forget his name) who seems to be famous for cursing people. The sage who is in the Mahabharat story went to visit the Pandavas in the forest I think and about the famous food pot of Draupadi, where Krishna ate a couple grains of rice from that pot and the sage and his entourage were satisfied (their hunger) and it didn't lead to the sage cursing the Pandavas.
(7) The curse leading women to have an impure time of the month.
(8) Gadadhar Pandit believing he offended Pundarik Vidyanidhi mentally.
(9) Jagai and Madhai
(10) The senior sannyasi criticizing Mahaprabhu for supposedly eating sweets.
Etc. etc.
And on and on... so many offenses and curses. It's like one can't disagree or even raise an eyebrow without it possibly being an offense. Which is exactly my point. How are we to know what is healthy discernment and disagreement? When (if ever) is it ok to publicly voice one's concerns about what seems inappropriate about another sadhaka's behavior? Clearly IGM wants everyone to know and fervently believe that questioning their authority is a major vaishnava aparadha, yet we all know that such an idea is one of the biggest lies around. But they couch it in with the 3rd offense to the Holy Name, which makes most followers shiver in their boots and run away with their ears covered if anyone tries to show that the 'emperors' are naked. I guess this is exactly why Erich Fromm wrote, “The desires and thoughts that the suggestion-apparatus of society (or authoritarian spiritual leadership) fills him with, chain him more thoroughly than outer chains. This is so because man can at least be aware of outer chains but be unaware of inner chains, carrying them with the illusion that he is free.” [The Art of Being; Erich Fromm; 1989]
I guess that's all for now. I'm looking forward to your thoughts. Gaura Haribol!!
